Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#3278372 2-Sep-2024 20:03

Someone made a decent point today, that we took our least experienced team in a couple of decades, played in a pretty tough environment, played pretty well for 65 minutes against a very strong opponent in their own country, and lost by 4 points.

I don't think we need to panic. We have stuff to fix, no doubt, but we are 5 tests in under new coaches and having lost a fair amount of on field experience and leadership not to mention a couple of unicorn level players.

What is broken, is pretty easily fixed in my opinion.

Having watched a number of NPC matches, and also the AU Argentina game for the first 60 minutes, I remain unconvinced that our onfield kicking is good. Some of Argentina's kicking was really great.

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itxtme

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#3278394 2-Sep-2024 21:33

Agreed, this is an inexperienced team. We clearly don't have the depth like we used to. I like where the team is headed, but it will take time.

Handle9

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#3278395 2-Sep-2024 21:45

itxtme:

Agreed, this is an inexperienced team.

It's really not. The New Zealand 23 had 1073 caps vs South Africas 918 caps.

The SA bench was significantly more experienced but their 9 - 10 -15 had 46 caps vs the All Blacks 264.

There are some inexperienced players but it's far from an inexperienced playing group.

The coaches are green as grass at this level. That has had an impact and will take some time to get up to speed.

GV27

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#3278416 3-Sep-2024 07:05

itxtme:

@GV27 it was more a childish response by me after being vindicated in what I said about Sam Cane and his tendency to complete sloppy tackles.

I mean... it's right. The discussion should be on how yet again we've seen a TMO balls-up in a SA/NZ game that has had a material impact and what the IRB are going to do about it and when, and the majority of the non-NZ rugby media are talking about Sam Cane's tackling technique.

Again.

It's weird because the people I speak to who have the strongest opinion about Sam Cane still being in the team are more genuinely concerned from a concussion/head knock perspective, yet this keeps popping up over and over again we are all just deciding to be cool with it. We genuinely will not survive a Northern series if we have both him and Blackadder giving away threes against teams that will slot them from almost anywhere.

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#3278505 3-Sep-2024 10:18

Handle9:

It's really not. The New Zealand 23 had 1073 caps vs South Africas 918 caps.

The SA bench was significantly more experienced but their 9 - 10 -15 had 46 caps vs the All Blacks 264.

There are some inexperienced players but it's far from an inexperienced playing group.

The coaches are green as grass at this level. That has had an impact and will take some time to get up to speed.

Dont confuse our team with their team. A linear comparison between our caps vs their caps doesn't make our team experienced. I like the direction we are headed but it will take time to rebuild.

GV27

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#3278540 3-Sep-2024 12:25

itxtme:

Dont confuse our team with their team. A linear comparison between our caps vs their caps doesn't make our team experienced. I like the direction we are headed but it will take time to rebuild.

How many games did Foster lose before people started baying for his head?

tukapa1

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#3278550 3-Sep-2024 12:49

itxtme:

Dont confuse our team with their team. A linear comparison between our caps vs their caps doesn't make our team experienced. I like the direction we are headed but it will take time to rebuild.

Of course it does:

Experience

noun ex·pe·ri·ence ik-ˈspir-ē-ən(t)s

1a : direct observation of or participation in events as a basis of knowledge
b : the fact or state of having been affected by or gained knowledge through direct observation or participation

2a : practical knowledge, skill, or practice derived from direct observation of or participation in events or in a particular activity
b : the length of such participation has 10 years' experience in the job

3 : something personally encountered, undergone, or lived through

GV27:

How many games did Foster lose before people started baying for his head?

I think it was right about now that they were baying the loudest - test loss in South Africa.

Shame the messiah is struggling so much - must be hard for the Canterbury faithful to deal with, although they are clinging to some ridiculous arguments to try and make it better, not least of which is how inexperienced we are. Robertson has basically taken Fozzies team, minus a couple of retirements (locks being the only real loss, Mounga never did much in the AB jersey and one sacking of Christie who was merely a placeholder til the young halfbacks came on). Otherwise he basically has the same team. Hasn't even had the balls to put Jordan at 15 which the Canterbury faithful told us would be the first thing that happened.

Now I could forgive him if he'd been adventurous and taken a broom to the squad with a view to the future, but never a better nickname than Fozzie 2.0 (although 2.0 does suggest some improvement).

I can't remember the last time I saw the AB's so impotent off the bench. Used to be our strength.

Let me guess - it's the assistant coaches fault we are so bad. Can't be Razors. Whereas when anything went well while Foster was in charge it was all down to the assistant coaches and nothing to do with Fozzie.

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#3278568 3-Sep-2024 13:57

Thanks for that Oxford, but it doesn't change our need for growth which is irrelevant to the opposition nor the time it will take us to build a dominant team.

Let me guess - it's the assistant coaches fault we are so bad. Can't be Razors. Whereas when anything went well while Foster was in charge it was all down to the assistant coaches and nothing to do with Fozzie.

We aren't actually that bad, its like nobody understands or remembers what it takes during a rebuild phase anymore. We literally don't have the depth of talent and experience we had a year ago now, but we will again soon - be patient

tukapa1

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#3278571 3-Sep-2024 14:24

itxtme:

Thanks for that Oxford, but it doesn't change our need for growth which is irrelevant to the opposition nor the time it will take us to build a dominant team.

We aren't actually that bad, its like nobody understands or remembers what it takes during a rebuild phase anymore. We literally don't have the depth of talent and experience we had a year ago now, but we will again soon - be patient

What's the rebuilding being done from Fozzies era? Couple of new players because of retirement or playing off shore, and even then Razor is talking publicly about wanting one of them back.

There were only four players in the starting 15 for the World Cup final that weren't in the squad against the Boks in the weekend - Retallick, Frizell, Smith, Mounga. Hell, like I said before he's still playing Jordan on the wing....

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#3278576 3-Sep-2024 15:15

GV27:

How many games did Foster lose before people started baying for his head?

0. Many people didn't even give him a chance and wrote him off before he was even appointed, and continuously until his first game.

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#3278578 3-Sep-2024 15:22

tukapa1:

What's the rebuilding being done from Fozzies era? Couple of new players because of retirement or playing off shore, and even then Razor is talking publicly about wanting one of them back.

There were only four players in the starting 15 for the World Cup final that weren't in the squad against the Boks in the weekend - Retallick, Frizell, Smith, Mounga. Hell, like I said before he's still playing Jordan on the wing....

I can only assume you are trolling your hardest here.

You missed Whitelock. Whitelock, Retallick, Smith and Mo'unga are all players significantly better and more experienced than the players they have been replaced by.

Not to mention almost entirely new management, supposed new playing style etc. Caps doesn't also mean heavy minutes. Doesn't mean battle tested.

I have been very straight all along that fans need to temper their expectations with Robertson.

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#3278580 3-Sep-2024 15:41

itxtme:
Handle9:

It's really not. The New Zealand 23 had 1073 caps vs South Africas 918 caps.

The SA bench was significantly more experienced but their 9 - 10 -15 had 46 caps vs the All Blacks 264.

There are some inexperienced players but it's far from an inexperienced playing group.

The coaches are green as grass at this level. That has had an impact and will take some time to get up to speed.

Dont confuse our team with their team. A linear comparison between our caps vs their caps doesn't make our team experienced. I like the direction we are headed but it will take time to rebuild.

We had an average number of caps of 44. Are you seriously calling a player with 44 caps inexperienced?

itxtme

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#3278593 3-Sep-2024 16:22

You live on another planet sometimes. You can run an average to support any stance you wish to take. Saying we don't have new All Blacks compared to RWC 2023 is so strange I don't know how to discuss further with you.

Reserves

12, 62, 19, 2, 4, 5, 76, 14

But yes 44 is a good indicator

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#3278594 3-Sep-2024 16:24

itxtme:

Just eat the humble pie, and put your tail between your legs. Not a big deal.

@itxtme I'd refer you to your own words.

Please show me where I said there weren't new All Blacks since 2023. Take your time, I'll wait.

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#3278598 3-Sep-2024 16:40

You averaged the caps like some nimwit that believes someone having a high number of caps means the person with low gets that experience, I am assuming via osmosis?

I'd refer you to your own words.

You have to lol that exactly what I said he would do he did though right?

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