Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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916 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3312567 25-Nov-2024 09:52

networkn:

I think our tight five looks good. I think we may finally have a combination that will make up for Cane leaving, though time will tell if they can sustain that level of performance.

Yeah, Midfield definitely needs some work, I think 9 is good, 10 I don't think we have our answer yet, though if I pick from whos' available, then Beauden starts every test match.

Cane will be ineligible once he plays in Japan, but I don't think it's likely he was going to be around in 2027 even if he hadn't.

Savea and Sititi are locked in, but who's your blindside? Finau hasn't really nailed it. Blackadder always seems to be injured and maybe a bit similar to the other two (could be good bench option). I wouldn't rule out seeing Frizzell back in 6 sooner rather than later.

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John19612

63 posts

Master Geek

#3312570 25-Nov-2024 10:01

maoriboy:

You must've really hated the photo op at the end and the interview with Scott Barrett when he mentioned the team were all behind it.

I highly doubt this is actually the reality of the situation. More likely he's just not wanting to stick his neck out and deviate from the "team" message, and get trapped into making a personal statement.

In the day of highly paid professional sports, this sort of political grandstanding has no place.

networkn

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#3312582 25-Nov-2024 10:38

John19612:

I highly doubt this is actually the reality of the situation. More likely he's just not wanting to stick his neck out and deviate from the "team" message, and get trapped into making a personal statement.

In the day of highly paid professional sports, this sort of political grandstanding has no place.

He looked extremely uncomfortable when questioned by press about it. Not saying it was one reason or another, but the whole thing seemed uncomfortable.

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#3312635 25-Nov-2024 10:55

I'd like to encourage the discussion of this particular event be moved to another thread if we want to continue it.

networkn

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#3312638 25-Nov-2024 10:59

Earbanean:

Savea and Sititi are locked in, but who's your blindside? Finau hasn't really nailed it. Blackadder always seems to be injured and maybe a bit similar to the other two (could be good bench option). I wouldn't rule out seeing Frizzell back in 6 sooner rather than later.

Finau may need more game time. This coming year will tell us a bit about where he is. Same with Lakai.

Blackadder is my first choice when fit. Grace seems a reasonable option too.

Frizells off field behaviour excludes him being in Black ever again for me, so I wouldn't pick him.

Earbanean

916 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3312647 25-Nov-2024 11:23

networkn:

Frizells off field behaviour excludes him being in Black ever again for me, so I wouldn't pick him.

But you were happy with Sevu Reece being an AB?

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#3312653 25-Nov-2024 12:17

Earbanean:

But you were happy with Sevu Reece being an AB?

Yes, completely different situation and completely different intent.

No, it's not because he is a Crusader (because he was a Chief before that).

Earbanean

916 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3312674 25-Nov-2024 13:58

networkn:

Yes, completely different situation and completely different intent.

No, it's not because he is a Crusader (because he was a Chief before that).

Wow, so beating up your girlfriend gets a pass because it's "different intent". Each to his own I guess, but generally the moral high ground does require some sort of consistency.

Also, for the record, he never played for the Chiefs. He was a Waikato player with a contract to go to Connaught in Ireland. After being found guilty, Connaught ripped up the contract and the Chiefs declined to pick him up. The Crusaders had no such problem.

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#3312689 25-Nov-2024 14:17

Earbanean:

Wow, so beating up your girlfriend gets a pass because it's "different intent". Each to his own I guess, but generally the moral high ground does require some sort of consistency.

That isn't what happened, you should have a proper look into it. It *is* different for a good number of reasons.

Also, for the record, he never played for the Chiefs. He was a Waikato player with a contract to go to Connaught in Ireland. After being found guilty, Connaught ripped up the contract and the Chiefs declined to pick him up.

Not sure why that detail is important.

The Crusaders had no such problem.

Given the strong culture down there, going on nearly 30 years, you might want to consider why?

Earbanean

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Ultimate Geek

#3312710 25-Nov-2024 14:52

Oh well, I guess we have slightly different standards - and that's fine. As I said above, each to his own.

Maybe, like TJs treaty comments, this discussion belongs in another thread. The rights and wrongs of sports people with checkered pasts is an interesting and fairly topical area. There has been a lot of press around recent cases like Scott Kuggeleijn in the Black Caps, and the more extreme case of the Dutch Olympic beach volleyball player.

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#3315461 3-Dec-2024 12:38

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360507970/all-blacks-star-winger-sevuloni-reece-sentenced-wilful-damage

This is very disappointing. Indications were that his 2018 situation was something he had put behind him and done the requisite work to ensure didn't happen again.

Alcohol again a factor. :(

Earbanean

916 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3315486 3-Dec-2024 14:07

Oh dear. I hate to say I told...

Seriously though, the handling of sports stars offending is a wider and complex issue. Maybe worthy of another thread, if anyone could be bothered. e.g. what Dalton Papali'i got away with could have potentially been way more serious - and fatal. I guess it's why the singling out of Shannon Frizzell stood out as pretty selective and arbitrary to me. I'm not defending him, but if you're going to go down that moral path, you need to be consistent and that's a real can of worms.

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#3315530 3-Dec-2024 16:35

People make mistakes. Sometimes they make more than one. I think intent plays a part in determining the seriousness of an issue.

What I see as a positive, is that Reece has said he has terminated his relationship with alcohol. That's a pretty major step, a positive one. I hope he sticks with that. Both his incidents have involved alcohol.

In both incidents he hasn't tried to hide from the issue, he has confronted both and taken positive action towards a better future.

Here is a question, would this be front page news if one of us had done it? I doubt it. It would be a foot note at best.

I am disappointed by his latest lapse of judgement and remain optimistic he is learning from his mistakes. Plenty of people don't.

I could understand the Crusaders/NZRU deciding twice is too many infractions. I hope they don't (Before I get accused of favouritism, check my post history on matters like this).

When faced with major life changes and during difficult times, so long as the status quo isn't exacerbating the problem, having nearby family, friends, and team mates, is more likely to result in a better outcome than him having to deal with all of these things, and a new country, new team, new culture etc.

invisibleman18

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#3315959 4-Dec-2024 17:27

They of course wouldn't be front page news but would you also have got away with no punishment given you're (presumably) not an elite athlete?

No conviction for beating up his partner and now no conviction again. Setting the example that there are no consequences if you're good at sport. These are probably just the times he's been caught or dobbed in too.

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#3315970 4-Dec-2024 18:22

invisibleman18: They of course wouldn't be front page news but would you also have got away with no punishment given you're (presumably) not an elite athlete?

No conviction for beating up his partner and now no conviction again. Setting the example that there are no consequences if you're good at sport. These are probably just the times he's been caught or dobbed in too.

I'd expect you'd got exactly the same treatment if you weren't an elite athlete.

Factors related to your offending, the likely impact to you of particular punishments, likelyhood of reoffending, all taken into account, plus the fact we have neither the space nor money to throw every offender in prison.

As for your characterisation of his prior offense, I recommend educating yourself on the actual events and what actually happened.

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