Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#1376727 30-Aug-2015 23:04

SH picked his first team. Then he added impact players on the bench. Then he put in the versatile players on the bench. Then he put in some random names to cover possible permutations of pre-match injuries.

But I tell you what, there are a handful at home who will be told to keep the mobile phones on while they go white-baiting. And more but with lesser expectations, told to play ITM cup.

Those white baiting will be on the first flight out if anything happens to the first XV.

itxtme

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#1376758 31-Aug-2015 01:11

Handle9: It's an interesting squad with a few guys who will feel lucky but nit too many who should feel hard done by.

Faumauina and Kerr-Barlow got picked because they are impact players off the bench and Naholo got picked because he gives them the option to play two big wings, or to drop Savea if his form doesn't improve.

Barrett and Messam were both very fortunate to make the side and have managed to do so on reputation IMO. The two players who miss out who have played really good rugby in the Black jersey this year are Sopoaga and Piutau. To suggest that Piutau hasn't been picked because he's going overseas is a bit silly, he hasn't been picked because they very clearly wanted another big wing, and Milner-Skudder showed something a bit special and very different.

The other thing to bear in mind is that in the case of an injury a player who is fresh into the squad, but a specialist (eg Dagg or Sopoaga) is very likely to start over someone who is a utility player or an impact bench guy. The reality of modern rugby means they've picked about 20 players who could start and about 11 who can come off the bench and provide impact or cover multiple positions.

Disagree, he is the only specialist 1st five who wasnt asked to play in position for an AB test this year. That says a lot about how confident SH is in his ability at his specialist role. He had a great super season (pre injury) and has vast AB experience, he was in well before Slade, and an easy pick over Sops. The thing counting against Sopoanga was time, oh and Dan Carters screamer against Australia.

Writings been on the wall for Dagg and Jane (injury more than anything for Jane)

I am pretty happy with the squad, thought it was a good balance. Shame the show pony SBW got in, he has done very little to help his cause this season, and while never spectacular I have always found Crotty to be a safe solid player.

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#1376784 31-Aug-2015 06:28

I'm guessing SBW impressed in training and in character to be picked. Coz on the field ... Meh ...

He will probably get game time to get more understanding with DC in pool play. Or not, as they might wrap DC in cotton wool then. Or maybe SBW is never going to be played and was brought in because he has something "special" (quote reason for Naholo being picked)

tukapa1

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#1376794 31-Aug-2015 07:21

itxtme:
Handle9: It's an interesting squad with a few guys who will feel lucky but nit too many who should feel hard done by.

Faumauina and Kerr-Barlow got picked because they are impact players off the bench and Naholo got picked because he gives them the option to play two big wings, or to drop Savea if his form doesn't improve.

Barrett and Messam were both very fortunate to make the side and have managed to do so on reputation IMO. The two players who miss out who have played really good rugby in the Black jersey this year are Sopoaga and Piutau. To suggest that Piutau hasn't been picked because he's going overseas is a bit silly, he hasn't been picked because they very clearly wanted another big wing, and Milner-Skudder showed something a bit special and very different.

The other thing to bear in mind is that in the case of an injury a player who is fresh into the squad, but a specialist (eg Dagg or Sopoaga) is very likely to start over someone who is a utility player or an impact bench guy. The reality of modern rugby means they've picked about 20 players who could start and about 11 who can come off the bench and provide impact or cover multiple positions.

Disagree, he is the only specialist 1st five who wasnt asked to play in position for an AB test this year. That says a lot about how confident SH is in his ability at his specialist role. He had a great super season (pre injury) and has vast AB experience, he was in well before Slade, and an easy pick over Sops. The thing counting against Sopoanga was time, oh and Dan Carters screamer against Australia.

Writings been on the wall for Dagg and Jane (injury more than anything for Jane)

I am pretty happy with the squad, thought it was a good balance. Shame the show pony SBW got in, he has done very little to help his cause this season, and while never spectacular I have always found Crotty to be a safe solid player.

Agree 100%.

I hear time and again that Barrett's goal kicking is a liability while Sopoaga is outstanding and we need someone that will not miss goals.

Super XV stats were 64% Barrett and 68% Sopoaga. Neither is outstanding but they are so similar that it amazes me how one eyed these commentators are. I even read an article yesterday which tried to justify Sopoaga's stats by saying all of his kicks were from the sideline.

Add to that Barrett being rushed back from injury to play out the Hurricanes season which clearly impacted his game.

Hansen and co had already penned Barrett's name in some time ago. He's an exceptional fullback as well and they know that. Sopoaga will get his day and will make a very good specialist first five post World Cup.

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#1376797 31-Aug-2015 07:39

Where I'm coming from with Barrett is that his role is to provide impact off the bench, not as a starting first five. So much of what he provides is based on pure pace, which he hasn't had since his injury. We obviously don't know what the status of his injury is so its hard to make a judgement on him.

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#1376799 31-Aug-2015 07:55

Quite a nice mix of yesterday, today and tomorrow. As has been pointed out, the British press will go after the team like never before so the old heads will be invaluable. I am sad for those excellent players who just missed out but have to trust that the selectors know what they are doing. Listening to Grant Fox, he admits they have taken some risks.
I wonder how tiring it would be for the young, super fit players that have just missed out to fly half way around the world at short notice to cover a serious injury. Maybe Dagg, Thrush, Sopoaga, Piutau and Ellis will get shouted a European holiday coincident with the RWC. What I didn't realise is that you can't bring in a replacement player if an injury occurs within 48 hours of a game. I guess that is the only fair way to do things for a global competition.
Sopoaga particularly should be ready to go, if the toll on first fives at the last RWC was anything to go by. Remember Carter hasn't made it uninjured through the last two cups.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#1376863 31-Aug-2015 09:08

Dingbatt: Quite a nice mix of yesterday, today and tomorrow. As has been pointed out, the British press will go after the team like never before so the old heads will be invaluable. I am sad for those excellent players who just missed out but have to trust that the selectors know what they are doing. Listening to Grant Fox, he admits they have taken some risks.
I wonder how tiring it would be for the young, super fit players that have just missed out to fly half way around the world at short notice to cover a serious injury. Maybe Dagg, Thrush, Sopoaga, Piutau and Ellis will get shouted a European holiday coincident with the RWC. What I didn't realise is that you can't bring in a replacement player if an injury occurs within 48 hours of a game. I guess that is the only fair way to do things for a global competition.
Sopoaga particularly should be ready to go, if the toll on first fives at the last RWC was anything to go by. Remember Carter hasn't made it uninjured through the last two cups.

He's never lasted a whole tournament that I can remember since he went to France. Any good white baiting spots in the Riviera?

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networkn

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#1376872 31-Aug-2015 09:25

Agree 100%.

I hear time and again that Barrett's goal kicking is a liability while Sopoaga is outstanding and we need someone that will not miss goals.

Super XV stats were 64% Barrett and 68% Sopoaga. Neither is outstanding but they are so similar that it amazes me how one eyed these commentators are. I even read an article yesterday which tried to justify Sopoaga's stats by saying all of his kicks were from the sideline.

Add to that Barrett being rushed back from injury to play out the Hurricanes season which clearly impacted his game.

Hansen and co had already penned Barrett's name in some time ago. He's an exceptional fullback as well and they know that. Sopoaga will get his day and will make a very good specialist first five post World Cup.

Yah Sopoaga's goal kicking is nothing special. It was fantastic at the start of the season but was terrible at the end. Agree re rushing Barrett back affected his game. Disagree about him being an exceptional full back. He is good. He is a better 10 than 15 by some margin.

trig42

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#1376881 31-Aug-2015 09:43

AGree with everyone above.

Congratulations to the 31 players announced yesterday. It must be very hard having to leave excellent players at home.

I think of the ones left behind, Piutau and Dagg, and to a slightly lesser extent, Sopoaga are the unluckiest.

I suspect those three may be taking a holiday in England or France in September and October. What a coincidence that would be if there is a breakage :)

If I were a selector, Naholo would be left behind, Dagg would be going (such safety under the high ball, and those back three are going to be bombed like the Battle of Britain - and he has a huge punt on him!). Luckily for NZ rugby, I am not a selector, and I have to admit, this coaching panel has hardly put a foot wrong since 2011.

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#1376883 31-Aug-2015 09:45

Dagg the new Christian Cullen

By the way, why do we need 3 half backs

networkn

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#1376923 31-Aug-2015 10:28

trig42: AGree with everyone above.

Congratulations to the 31 players announced yesterday. It must be very hard having to leave excellent players at home.

I think of the ones left behind, Piutau and Dagg, and to a slightly lesser extent, Sopoaga are the unluckiest.

I suspect those three may be taking a holiday in England or France in September and October. What a coincidence that would be if there is a breakage :)

If I were a selector, Naholo would be left behind, Dagg would be going (such safety under the high ball, and those back three are going to be bombed like the Battle of Britain - and he has a huge punt on him!). Luckily for NZ rugby, I am not a selector, and I have to admit, this coaching panel has hardly put a foot wrong since 2011.

100% behind you with selection choices. I agree we look potentially exposed under the high ball. I hope these newbies are up to it. :)

I would have taken NMS *OR* Naholo (assuming truly fit) , not both.

networkn

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#1378995 3-Sep-2015 12:46

What is the point in changing the number of points that are allocated to a try, penalty, or conversion? Surely if both teams get the same number of points for the same actions, it's irrelevant?

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#1379027 3-Sep-2015 13:14

Obviously it's so you try harder to score tries because that gives you 4 times the points as doing other things

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#1379044 3-Sep-2015 13:20

networkn: What is the point in changing the number of points that are allocated to a try, penalty, or conversion? Surely if both teams get the same number of points for the same actions, it's irrelevant?

The point is to encourage teams to play rugby instead of kicking goals. Which in turn will ideally encourage people to (pay to) watch. Which will encourage sponsors to spend more, which will encourage broadcasters to spend more, which will encourage unions to pay more, which will encourage players to earn more... and us mugs (the fans) will pay for it.

lol

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#1380790 6-Sep-2015 21:22

joker97: Dagg the new Christian Cullen

Cullen was much more exciting to watch and the stats show he was a much more prolific try scorer. A good excuse to watch some videos

Sevens
18 tries in the 1996 Sevens in Hong Kong including 7 tries in one match
3 tries on test debut (vs Samoa)
4 tries in his second test (vs Scotland)

Fifteens
46 tries in 58 matches
16 Tri Nations tries (only beaten by McCaw on 18 and Habana on 19)
7 tries in one series scoring in every game NZ played in 2000 (Cullen is also 8th on that list with 4 tries; his record was beaten by Ben Smith in 2013 with 8 tries)

Super rugby
56 tries in Super rugby (fourth on the list)
308 points in 85 Super rugby matches (#35)

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