Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#1409634 20-Oct-2015 09:29

networkn: World Rugby confirms Craig Jourbert made incorrect decision in awarding a penalty to Australia. Has probably cost him a refereeing decision in the finals.

NMS looks to be recovering and will likely be fit for NZ/SA game. Crockett somewhat unlikely.

Ben Skeen (TMO Scotland vs Australia) should probably miss out too. His call to yellow card Sean Maitland for a deliberate knock on was just plain wrong, and cost SCO two tries while he was in the bin. He was clearly attempting to catch a ball that was on his fingertips, not bat it down to prevent a try. But for about a cm of grip he would have been haring down the field for a 7 pointer. To me that means players can't even try for an intercept if they aren't assured of catching it cleanly.

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#1409660 20-Oct-2015 09:45

networkn: World Rugby confirms Craig Jourbert made incorrect decision in awarding a penalty to Australia. Has probably cost him a refereeing decision in the finals.

NO WAY. Well one could say this is the big one where a ref influenced the outcome of a big game. 3 more big games to go, anything can happen. Anything.

The other way to see it is, scrum to Australia 25m from the goal line, there is a chance for them to get 3 points, but in terms of fairness, yes this is what I'm talking about referees influencing the game big time.
As I said before, Joubert has a knack to be biased to the favourites and against the underdogs.
Maybe him bolting out of the field means he was ashamed.

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#1409663 20-Oct-2015 09:47

Dingbatt:
networkn: World Rugby confirms Craig Jourbert made incorrect decision in awarding a penalty to Australia. Has probably cost him a refereeing decision in the finals.

NMS looks to be recovering and will likely be fit for NZ/SA game. Crockett somewhat unlikely.

Ben Skeen (TMO Scotland vs Australia) should probably miss out too. His call to yellow card Sean Maitland for a deliberate knock on was just plain wrong, and cost SCO two tries while he was in the bin. He was clearly attempting to catch a ball that was on his fingertips, not bat it down to prevent a try. But for about a cm of grip he would have been haring down the field for a 7 pointer. To me that means players can't even try for an intercept if they aren't assured of catching it cleanly.

I think you really have to look at the wording of the Law in regards to what is a deliberate knock down. Haven't got time now, but will dig it up later.

I wonder how many more controversies we are going to see and when the WR is going to make the laws more simple to apply.

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#1409666 20-Oct-2015 09:58

joker97:
networkn: World Rugby confirms Craig Jourbert made incorrect decision in awarding a penalty to Australia. Has probably cost him a refereeing decision in the finals.

NO WAY. Well one could say this is the big one where a ref influenced the outcome of a big game. 3 more big games to go, anything can happen. Anything.

The other way to see it is, scrum to Australia 25m from the goal line, there is a chance for them to get 3 points, but in terms of fairness, yes this is what I'm talking about referees influencing the game big time.
As I said before, Joubert has a knack to be biased to the favourites and against the underdogs.
Maybe him bolting out of the field means he was ashamed.

I have flip flopped on him leaving so quickly, and yes it does appear a little cowardly, however, given the intensity of the crowds and the anger of the players (I saw a clip where as he is leaving the field a Scottish player is yelling and waving at him quite animatedly (I believe telling him to get off the field) , I don't think it's unreasonable he felt a little threatened.

The bottom line is, had Foley of MISSED that penalty, would world media be all over him for missing? Would they blame Australia's loss on him entirely? I feel Joubert is culpable, but he is 1 factor in a game that runs for 80 minutes. I do however feel Australia were the stronger team, and with the exception of the intercept pass, Scotland wouldn't probably have crossed again.

This isn't to say Scotland should not have won, they probably deserved to on the balance of it, however I don't think it's reasonable to blame that one decision for the loss. Much bigger factors like throwing to the back of a lineout were in play.

Referees will play a part in the finals, the AB's will need to show excellent discipline to not risk having our game decided by a 3 pointer 1 minute from the end of the game.

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#1409671 20-Oct-2015 10:08

Dingbatt:
networkn: World Rugby confirms Craig Jourbert made incorrect decision in awarding a penalty to Australia. Has probably cost him a refereeing decision in the finals.

NMS looks to be recovering and will likely be fit for NZ/SA game. Crockett somewhat unlikely.

Ben Skeen (TMO Scotland vs Australia) should probably miss out too. His call to yellow card Sean Maitland for a deliberate knock on was just plain wrong, and cost SCO two tries while he was in the bin. He was clearly attempting to catch a ball that was on his fingertips, not bat it down to prevent a try. But for about a cm of grip he would have been haring down the field for a 7 pointer. To me that means players can't even try for an intercept if they aren't assured of catching it cleanly.

I agree it was the wrong decision there. I think the position of the hands tells a story. Same with the CAN/TAR game, his hand was palm upward.

I think players are going to have to be pretty confident they can intercept a ball completely, but it's hard because those things are a fraction of a second decision.

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#1409719 20-Oct-2015 11:06

the AB's will need to show excellent discipline to not risk having our game decided by a 3 pointer 1 minute from the end of the game.

Did you see Wayne Barnes' last game? He sees penalties that don't exist! Half the time the team awarded a penalty would be shocked

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#1409724 20-Oct-2015 11:10

I see SA targeting Julian Savea (he, like Lomu, has not scored a try against SA). NMS may be a bit too wily for them, and in that case, so will Ben Smith. BB will be a good replacement for JS or NMS or BS. JS will at least tie up a couple of defenders, so they may use that (like what happened way back when John Kirwan was awesome - he tied up two players, creating a gap for the rest of the backs).

Carter needs two more really good games - him running at the line is the difference between an average (which most of the time is enough) and good ABs performance.

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#1409725 20-Oct-2015 11:11

trig42: I see SA targeting Julian Savea (he, like Lomu, has not scored a try against SA). NMS may be a bit too wily for them, and in that case, so will Ben Smith. BB will be a good replacement for JS or NMS or BS. JS will at least tie up a couple of defenders, so they may use that (like what happened way back when John Kirwan was awesome - he tied up two players, creating a gap for the rest of the backs).

Carter needs two more really good games - him running at the line is the difference between an average (which most of the time is enough) and good ABs performance.

He does tend to run at the line, when the forwards are going forward. What you need to wish for, is two more dominant forwards performances.

What does need to happen, is if they decide DC runs the line, he needs support players to clean out the breakdown when (if) he gets tackled, so he isn't isolated and doesn't turn the ball over.

I do think we need to be especially careful of intercept passes. Had France been a bit more awake, I saw at LEAST 2 clear chances for them to score if they had grabbed the ball.

I am keen for them to play "safe" rugby, making sure passes go to hand, and only go for offloads, when it's really on.

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#1409728 20-Oct-2015 11:21

networkn:
trig42: I see SA targeting Julian Savea (he, like Lomu, has not scored a try against SA). NMS may be a bit too wily for them, and in that case, so will Ben Smith. BB will be a good replacement for JS or NMS or BS. JS will at least tie up a couple of defenders, so they may use that (like what happened way back when John Kirwan was awesome - he tied up two players, creating a gap for the rest of the backs).

Carter needs two more really good games - him running at the line is the difference between an average (which most of the time is enough) and good ABs performance.

He does tend to run at the line, when the forwards are going forward. What you need to wish for, is two more dominant forwards performances.

What does need to happen, is if they decide DC runs the line, he needs support players to clean out the breakdown when (if) he gets tackled, so he isn't isolated and doesn't turn the ball over.

I do think we need to be especially careful of intercept passes. Had France been a bit more awake, I saw at LEAST 2 clear chances for them to score if they had grabbed the ball.

I am keen for them to play "safe" rugby, making sure passes go to hand, and only go for offloads, when it's really on.

Yep, forwards need to get up again. They were pretty awesome against an admittedly woeful looking French pack. Offloads can wait until the ABs are 15+ clear :)

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#1409730 20-Oct-2015 11:25

Garces and Barnes for the semis.
That means Nigel Owen for the final.
Joubert misses out.

No idea about Garces but he also interprets things different to Joubert (favours favourites) and Owen (very pragmatic).

I will turn my attention to infringement calls this weekend. Should be fun.

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#1409731 20-Oct-2015 11:29

joker97: Garces and Barnes for the semis.
That means Nigel Owen for the final.
Joubert misses out.

No idea about Garces but he also interprets things different to Joubert (favours favourites) and Owen (very pragmatic).

I will turn my attention to infringement calls this weekend. Should be fun.

To be fair, it seems like you pretty much always do, based on the number of Referee comments you make :)

I think Garces is a pretty calm guy. I think Owens does tend to be a little bit of the grumpy gus. He has no tolerance for questions, and I have seen him seem overly harsh on one team if he feels they are unhappy with his decisions. That may be a little unfair for me to say, but it's an impression.

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#1409743 20-Oct-2015 11:34

networkn:
joker97: Garces and Barnes for the semis.
That means Nigel Owen for the final.
Joubert misses out.

No idea about Garces but he also interprets things different to Joubert (favours favourites) and Owen (very pragmatic).

I will turn my attention to infringement calls this weekend. Should be fun.

To be fair, it seems like you pretty much always do, based on the number of Referee comments you make :)

I think Garces is a pretty calm guy. I think Owens does tend to be a little bit of the grumpy gus. He has no tolerance for questions, and I have seen him seem overly harsh on one team if he feels they are unhappy with his decisions. That may be a little unfair for me to say, but it's an impression.

Yeah i guess referees are humans who have average, good, and bad days. Sometimes out doesn't affect the outcome, once on a while it shakes the planet. Maybe each team should get 2 TMO referrals. One in each half.

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#1409780 20-Oct-2015 13:09

networkn:
Dingbatt:
networkn: World Rugby confirms Craig Jourbert made incorrect decision in awarding a penalty to Australia. Has probably cost him a refereeing decision in the finals.

NMS looks to be recovering and will likely be fit for NZ/SA game. Crockett somewhat unlikely.

Ben Skeen (TMO Scotland vs Australia) should probably miss out too. His call to yellow card Sean Maitland for a deliberate knock on was just plain wrong, and cost SCO two tries while he was in the bin. He was clearly attempting to catch a ball that was on his fingertips, not bat it down to prevent a try. But for about a cm of grip he would have been haring down the field for a 7 pointer. To me that means players can't even try for an intercept if they aren't assured of catching it cleanly.

I agree it was the wrong decision there. I think the position of the hands tells a story. Same with the CAN/TAR game, his hand was palm upward.

I think players are going to have to be pretty confident they can intercept a ball completely, but it's hard because those things are a fraction of a second decision.

There needs to be a consistent guideline put in place by world rugby. If that was a yellow card offence then there have been dozens of those this year in all rugby that werent punished by even a penalty let alone the card.

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#1409785 20-Oct-2015 13:15

itxtme:
networkn:
Dingbatt:
networkn: World Rugby confirms Craig Jourbert made incorrect decision in awarding a penalty to Australia. Has probably cost him a refereeing decision in the finals.

NMS looks to be recovering and will likely be fit for NZ/SA game. Crockett somewhat unlikely.

Ben Skeen (TMO Scotland vs Australia) should probably miss out too. His call to yellow card Sean Maitland for a deliberate knock on was just plain wrong, and cost SCO two tries while he was in the bin. He was clearly attempting to catch a ball that was on his fingertips, not bat it down to prevent a try. But for about a cm of grip he would have been haring down the field for a 7 pointer. To me that means players can't even try for an intercept if they aren't assured of catching it cleanly.

I agree it was the wrong decision there. I think the position of the hands tells a story. Same with the CAN/TAR game, his hand was palm upward.

I think players are going to have to be pretty confident they can intercept a ball completely, but it's hard because those things are a fraction of a second decision.

There needs to be a consistent guideline put in place by world rugby. If that was a yellow card offence then there have been dozens of those this year in all rugby that werent punished by even a penalty let alone the card.

Not sure I'd agree with dozens not punished by a penalty. All the ones I have seen (and I have seen a LOOOOTTTTT of Rugby this year) have resulted in a penalty unless the player manages to get their hands on it a second time (even if it's then dropped).

I do however agree with the clearer laws suggestion.

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#1409786 20-Oct-2015 13:17

joker97:
networkn:
joker97: Garces and Barnes for the semis.
That means Nigel Owen for the final.
Joubert misses out.

No idea about Garces but he also interprets things different to Joubert (favours favourites) and Owen (very pragmatic).

I will turn my attention to infringement calls this weekend. Should be fun.

To be fair, it seems like you pretty much always do, based on the number of Referee comments you make :)

I think Garces is a pretty calm guy. I think Owens does tend to be a little bit of the grumpy gus. He has no tolerance for questions, and I have seen him seem overly harsh on one team if he feels they are unhappy with his decisions. That may be a little unfair for me to say, but it's an impression.

Yeah i guess referees are humans who have average, good, and bad days. Sometimes out doesn't affect the outcome, once on a while it shakes the planet. Maybe each team should get 2 TMO referrals. One in each half.

Disagree with 2 per game per side. I think 1 is sufficient. Games are already too long, due to the time spent resetting scrums. (One game in pool play the first half was actually 49:30m long. Literally 1 scrum took over 7 minutes!

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