Relocating to the Gulf

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#2387140 8-Jan-2020 06:42

We haven't done Musandum yet but it's definitely on the cards.

Still lots of the region to see, we've visited Fujairah, Abu Dhabi, Ras Al Khaimah and Sharjah but still so much to see!

xlinknz

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#2392194 14-Jan-2020 19:31

This thread caught my attention as we are transiting the region in a few weeks and had considered the future possibly of working there

Having just read what wikipedia had to say on human rights (including foreign nationals) in the UAE for those there if you didn't know already don't risk crossing the authorities

Handle9

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#2392199 14-Jan-2020 19:40

xlinknz:

This thread caught my attention as we are transiting the region in a few weeks and had considered the future possibly of working there

Having just read what wikipedia had to say on human rights (including foreign nationals) in the UAE for those there if you didn't know already don't risk crossing the authorities

Sigh. I guess you have never been to the UAE?

You will have much the same experience with the authorities here as in most countries. If you cross the authorities in the US you will not enjoy the experience either.

The emirates are not democracies - they are absolute monarchies. They are also incredibly safe with over 15 million tourists visiting every year. You have to be very stupid to have any real issues.

xlinknz

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#2392222 14-Jan-2020 21:00

Handle9:

xlinknz:

This thread caught my attention as we are transiting the region in a few weeks and had considered the future possibly of working there

Having just read what wikipedia had to say on human rights (including foreign nationals) in the UAE for those there if you didn't know already don't risk crossing the authorities

Sigh. I guess you have never been to the UAE?

You will have much the same experience with the authorities here as in most countries. If you cross the authorities in the US you will not enjoy the experience either.

The emirates are not democracies - they are absolute monarchies. They are also incredibly safe with over 15 million tourists visiting every year. You have to be very stupid to have any real issues.

No I have not been to the UAE. I agree it would be very unlikely not to be safe, I simply don't approve of their human rights record

Handle9

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#2392731 16-Jan-2020 00:49

xlinknz:

Handle9:

xlinknz:

This thread caught my attention as we are transiting the region in a few weeks and had considered the future possibly of working there

Having just read what wikipedia had to say on human rights (including foreign nationals) in the UAE for those there if you didn't know already don't risk crossing the authorities

Sigh. I guess you have never been to the UAE?

You will have much the same experience with the authorities here as in most countries. If you cross the authorities in the US you will not enjoy the experience either.

The emirates are not democracies - they are absolute monarchies. They are also incredibly safe with over 15 million tourists visiting every year. You have to be very stupid to have any real issues.

No I have not been to the UAE. I agree it would be very unlikely not to be safe, I simply don't approve of their human rights record

I hope you would make the same comments about the US?

The UAE are by no means perfect but often we are very quick to judge.

Handle9

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#2412024 3-Feb-2020 19:57

We are in the process of changing banks in New Zealand. Banking in NZ as an expat really is a giant pain. The fairly stupid anti money laundering rules have created a huge amount of busy work for everyone involved, without really adding any value.

My current bank is having a fit at the moment because they sent mail to my residential address and it got returned. It is literally impossible to send mail to a residential address in Dubai as there is no home mail delivery. All mail is delivered via PO boxes. Trying to explain this to my current bank is like talking to a wall.

They rang me at 3am today on my UAE mobile, which really sums up the nature of their understanding of foreign countries. They also want a utilities bill in my wifes name (we are joint account holders). This is literally impossible as I sponsor her visa. One of the requirements to sponsor your wife is to have a tenancy contract. As the house tenancy is in my name therefore the utilities have to be in my name as well. Once again the bank can not cope with this and are freaking out. They don't offer solutions, just make stupid demands.

They have also asked me if I plan on sending currency to or from overseas, and what countries. Given they know I am an overseas resident it really typifies the "computer says no" nature of the AML laws. Given the diverse non bank financial services being offered now, it really makes things even more of a pain. We use currencyfair.com for our forex transactions as they offer superior rates to the banks. They send money from somewhere in Europe which of course triggers a whole new wave of freaking out.

I really question the benefit of the AML laws if the types of questions being asked are so stupid.

Anyway now that we are changing NZ banks (don't go near TSB if you are an expat) we have a whole rigmarole of forms. Documents need to be certified at the embassy, which obviously adds a layer of complexity and cost to transactions. Still it will be worth it and I have no interest in giving my money to companies who are incompetent.

Beccara

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#2412026 3-Feb-2020 20:02

Thought about transferwise?

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Handle9

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#2412079 3-Feb-2020 20:34

Beccara:

Thought about transferwise?

They are more expensive than currencyfair.com for sizable transfers. Currencyfair charges $5 per transaction, transferwise charge a percentage.

I've used both, they are very similar.

bmt

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#2413811 6-Feb-2020 19:22

To be fair to TSB, they are a pretty small bank in an already pretty small market, and you are hardly a typical customer. A bigger bank may have a better set up in this area and offer a better experience, but do remember the AML rules were brought in for a reason regardless of how much inconvenience it creates for you.

Beccara

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#2413849 6-Feb-2020 20:32

Handle9:

Beccara:

Thought about transferwise?

They are more expensive than currencyfair.com for sizable transfers. Currencyfair charges $5 per transaction, transferwise charge a percentage.

I've used both, they are very similar.

Ah I was meaning for an NZ bank account you can get transfers on :)

Handle9

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#2413876 6-Feb-2020 21:41

Beccara:

Handle9:

Beccara:

Thought about transferwise?

They are more expensive than currencyfair.com for sizable transfers. Currencyfair charges $5 per transaction, transferwise charge a percentage.

I've used both, they are very similar.

Ah I was meaning for an NZ bank account you can get transfers on :)

That doesn't really help me with a New Zealand mortgage.

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#2413877 6-Feb-2020 21:57

bmt:

To be fair to TSB, they are a pretty small bank in an already pretty small market, and you are hardly a typical customer. A bigger bank may have a better set up in this area and offer a better experience, but do remember the AML rules were brought in for a reason regardless of how much inconvenience it creates for you.

I had a discussion with TSB before we went overseas and they said no this will be fine, you don't need to give us any documents, no need to worry etc etc.

It has been incredibly painful and they make the rules up as they go. A very simple example. They send me an email: You must provide us with some certified documents. I said sure but that will cost $200, will TSB pay for this? The response was that it no we don't really need them. If they require these documents to meat their statutory obligations then surely there isn't flexibility.

I could honestly care less about the reasons for the AML as it makes life difficult for me and makes me far less likely to invest money in New Zealand. I don't need to put my money back into New Zealand, it's a big world and if it's too difficult I'll just invest in another economy.

Sidestep

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#2413935 7-Feb-2020 07:03

Handle9:

We are in the process of changing banks in New Zealand. Banking in NZ as an expat really is a giant pain. The fairly stupid anti money laundering rules have created a huge amount of busy work for everyone involved, without really adding any value.

Ha! Absolutely.. the (seemingly random) implementation of AML requirements in NZ could inspire a 'Catch 22' novel..

We've now resided outside NZ for 18 months or so.. and recently decided to sell one of our NZ properties.

To list with a Real Estate Agent in NZ (LJ Hooker) their AML policies required having our ID verified, ie. notarised copies of our passports and proof of address.. but not proof of our 'now' address, but proof of address (in both our names) of the property we were selling - not more than 3 months old.

Easy - you would think.. even though we'd never used that property as a mailing address, haven't got utilities connected, we still received (paperless) rates notices in both our names, issued quarterly.

Except that the Notary Public over here wasn't willing to sign off our printed out copies of the NZ rates notices as 'originals' - He says the wording required ("true copy of the original document I have sighted") means he can't.

So - plan B - get the council to mail out a hard copy of our rates notice. They will only mail to address on file. Get friends to collect (from our old - remote, rural mailing address) and deliver the original to Real Estate office (an hour's drive away). Except - quarterly rates notice is now just over 3 months old, 'mail out' copies of new ones are somehow delayed. Repeat the process a couple of weeks later. Now owe NZ friends many beers.

We discover there is still an (unused) LOC registered against the title - not properly removed due to the bank's incompetence.
During the call to the bank to get it removed they 'discover' we are now resident overseas (we had informed them of our move and had the date and time of our call with them recorded).
We suddenly have to provide the bank with AML proof of our new address overseas (even though we've received mail from them sent to this address), and of our previously residence at the property in question. I ask if they've noticed for the last year all payments into my accounts have come via Transferwise - but apparently they just show as transfers from BNZ..

I then (when requesting clarity on the documents required) have an almost unbelievably bad experience with their call centre, get upset with the bank, move all our money out, change all our bills and try to close our accounts with them.
They won't close our accounts unless we do it at a branch.
I call our local branch (where I had often dealt with the manager in person) find there's a new branch manager who advises me go through the call centre.
I speak to a manager at the call centre who advises he can only close our accounts remotely once there've been no transactions for 3 months.
I get a lawyer involved. He requires AML proof - it's relatively simple and the Notary cheerfully takes our payment. The LOC is removed. The bank agrees not to charge us documentation fees as 'it appears to be a failure from our end'.. so far so 'good'

3 months go by, the only transactions on our accounts are transferred payments in to cover our monthly account fees (which have reappeared since I emptied our accounts). I call to cancel them, the call centre person won't do it as there have been 'transactions' I move up the chain, manage get all our accounts cancelled except for one - which he says will have to remain open but be charged no fees until we return to NZ sometime to do it in person..

Two weeks ago we accept an offer on our property.

Yesterday the Lawyer - now doing the conveyancing - advises he needs new AML proof, this time showing "a recent (not more than 3 months old) utility account (such as power or telephone) addressed to you both (or separate invoices for each of you if you do not have a joint one) at your home address [overseas]" and valid proof of citizenship and residence - attaching sample certificates showing how they must be laid out...
Today we realised all the utilities here are in my wife's name, and she pointed out that my NZ passport has expired and may not meet the requirement of 'valid'..

Damn! (well, at least it feels good to get all that off my chest)

Handle9

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#2413937 7-Feb-2020 07:10

Sidestep:
Handle9:

We are in the process of changing banks in New Zealand. Banking in NZ as an expat really is a giant pain. The fairly stupid anti money laundering rules have created a huge amount of busy work for everyone involved, without really adding any value.

Ha! Absolutely.. the (seemingly random) implementation of AML requirements in NZ could inspire a 'Catch 22' novel..

We've now resided outside NZ for 18 months or so.. and recently decided to sell one of our NZ properties.

To list with a Real Estate Agent in NZ (LJ Hooker) their AML policies required having our ID verified, ie. notarised copies of our passports and proof of address.. but not proof of our 'now' address, but proof of address (in both our names) of the property we were selling - not more than 3 months old.

Easy - you would think.. even though we'd never used that property as a mailing address, haven't got utilities connected, we still received (paperless) rates notices in both our names, issued quarterly.

Except that the Notary Public over here wasn't willing to sign off our printed out copies of the NZ rates notices as 'originals' - He says the wording required ("true copy of the original document I have sighted") means he can't.

So - plan B - get the council to mail out a hard copy of our rates notice. They will only mail to address on file. Get friends to collect (from our old - remote, rural mailing address) and deliver the original to Real Estate office (an hour's drive away). Except - quarterly rates notice is now just over 3 months old, 'mail out' copies of new ones are somehow delayed. Repeat the process a couple of weeks later. Now owe NZ friends many beers.

We discover there is still an (unused) LOC registered against the title - not properly removed due to the bank's incompetence.
During the call to the bank to get it removed they 'discover' we are now resident overseas (we had informed them of our move and had the date and time of our call with them recorded).
We suddenly have to provide the bank with AML proof of our new address overseas (even though we've received mail from them sent to this address), and of our previously residence at the property in question. I ask if they've noticed for the last year all payments into my accounts have come via Transferwise - but apparently they just show as transfers from BNZ..

I then (when requesting clarity on the documents required) have an almost unbelievably bad experience with their call centre, get upset with the bank, move all our money out, change all our bills and try to close our accounts with them.
They won't close our accounts unless we do it at a branch.
I call our local branch (where I had often dealt with the manager in person) find there's a new branch manager who advises me go through the call centre.
I speak to a manager at the call centre who advises he can only close our accounts remotely once there've been no transactions for 3 months.
I get a lawyer involved. He requires AML proof - it's relatively simple and the Notary cheerfully takes our payment. The LOC is removed. The bank agrees not to charge us documentation fees as 'it appears to be a failure from our end'.. so far so 'good'

3 months go by, the only transactions on our accounts are transferred payments in to cover our monthly account fees (which have reappeared since I emptied our accounts). I call to cancel them, the call centre person won't do it as there have been 'transactions' I move up the chain, manage get all our accounts cancelled except for one - which he says will have to remain open but be charged no fees until we return to NZ sometime to do it in person..

Two weeks ago we accept an offer on our property.

Yesterday the Lawyer - now doing the conveyancing - advises he needs new AML proof, this time showing "a recent (not more than 3 months old) utility account (such as power or telephone) addressed to you both (or separate invoices for each of you if you do not have a joint one) at your home address [overseas]" and valid proof of citizenship and residence - attaching sample certificates showing how they must be laid out...
Today we realised all the utilities here are in my wife's name, and she pointed out that my NZ passport has expired and may not meet the requirement of 'valid'..

Damn! (well, at least it feels good to get all that off my chest)

It really is like some sort of ludicrous clown show. The hilarious thing is if you actually wanted to launder money you could get around this nonsense relatively easily for the cost of a few hundred dollars. If you are honest and don't want to open sham accounts for the purpose of this you jump through a hundred hoops.

NorthernZone

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#2413938 7-Feb-2020 07:30

I have complete sympathy with you over all the AML bureaucracy. Just one tiny hint though: your expired NZ passport is still valid for the purposes of ID verification if it's less than 2 years expired.

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