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8822 posts

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  # 1668443 12-Nov-2016 10:42
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cynnicallemon:

 

Technofreak:

 

I've seen several reports now saying the election result was the result of the "uneducated/blue collar workers" voting for Trump or Brexit, with the inference these people really don't know what they're doing and shouldn't have a vote.  

 

 

 

 

They shouldn't be allowed to vote. Next we should sterilize them so they can't breed.

 

You see what path that's taking you down?

 

 

 

 

Oh please.  I know that path - it's called "building a strawman" - and you've just walked it.

 

Technofreak's comments have been criticised / argued without need for doing what you've just done.


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Ultimate Geek


  # 1668447 12-Nov-2016 10:49
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Fred99:

 

 

 

Technofreak's comments have been criticised / argued without need for doing what you've just done.

 

 

Oh I'm so sorry, I will ask for your permission to post next time...


 
 
 
 


Lock him up!
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  # 1668448 12-Nov-2016 10:50
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It has repeatedly been shown that prosperity and education go together. The better off people are, the better informed they tend to be. I'm not talking about academic intellectuals here, just solid fundamental education. Give blue collar workers or anyone else a decent standard of living, and they almost can't help expanding their horizons and especially giving their children improved opportunities. A problem with America and here and elsewhere is increasing income disparity, to the point where the best-paid receive ridiculous levels of compensation generated by the worst-paid, who can't escape poverty even when they have full-time employment. This is the source of the anger that elected Donald Trump.

 

Of course the answer is not preventing anyone from voting. It is improving the standard of living of everyone by ensuring fairer levels of pay for real work.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1668451 12-Nov-2016 10:59
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Rikkitic:

 

It has repeatedly been shown that prosperity and education go together. The better off people are, the better informed they tend to be. 

 

 

I can pretty much agree with that in general but then it's a pity to see those "educated" college students in the US who are marching through the streets, chanting hate towards Trump plus, urinating and burning the nations flag. Perhaps they need to be educated about the democratic process and accepting the will of the majority. The same applies to the Anti-Brexiteers too.


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  # 1668458 12-Nov-2016 11:15
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I get a sense from your different comments that you are cherry-picking to support your reactionary sentiments. Of course you have every right to believe what you do, but remarks like this are not particularly helpful. Most of those demonstrating are not violent and are exercising their free speech rights as enshrined in the Constitution. Why zoom in on the handful of agitators who always turn up at events like these and try to provoke confrontations? That is a distortion of what is actually happening and it doesn't serve any useful purpose.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1668459 12-Nov-2016 11:15
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cynnicallemon:

 

Rikkitic:

 

It has repeatedly been shown that prosperity and education go together. The better off people are, the better informed they tend to be. 

 

 

I can pretty much agree with that in general but then it's a pity to see those "educated" college students in the US who are marching through the streets, chanting hate towards Trump plus, urinating and burning the nations flag. Perhaps they need to be educated about the democratic process and accepting the will of the majority. The same applies to the Anti-Brexiteers too.

 

 

I'd be very careful before making assumptions about the protestors in general - based on limited media coverage of what some have done.  A few burned cars and tear gas canisters in a nation of 320 million isn't signalling civil war or a revolution.

 

There are also plenty of reports of despicable acts of hate being carried out by some jubilant Trump supporters against blacks, hispanics etc, including on US college campuses, and apparently by "educated" college students.




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  # 1668465 12-Nov-2016 11:49
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Fred99:

 

 

 

The "he's not my president" protesters are wrong.  He most certainly is their president.  If they continue with the present message, and there's more violence / rioting, they're going to be crushed.  Then when some of the Trump policies come out, there won't be room for credible protest.

 

 

Ironically, Trump would have been out with "she's not my president" banners if he'd lost. Remember the system was apparently rigged against him.


 
 
 
 


gzt

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  # 1668466 12-Nov-2016 11:52
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Fred99:

It's a problem.  Trump could even be impeached if he's found to have engaged in fraud and racketeering. I doubt the democrats would want to push for that unless there's a big change in public sentiment, even then it only gets rid of the ringleader.  The world has changed, and there's nothing much that can be done - for 2 years at least (mid term).


Are both houses now majority Republican? Impeachment seems unlikely if that is the case. Even so the threat of impeachment seems fairly useful to the Republican party.

Trump would also require an understanding with a Republican successor president to avoid prosecution after retirement.

Even bush2 republican cabinet level guys like Cheney were able to make enough threats to avoid investigation when Democrat Pres Obama was considering prosecution. Prosecution of Trump for anything seems unlikely. Having said that, it's all politics and Trump could lose like anyone else. He tends to fail big ; ).

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Ultimate Geek


  # 1668468 12-Nov-2016 11:53
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Fred99:

 

 

 

I'd be very careful before making assumptions about the protestors in general - based on limited media coverage of what some have done.  A few burned cars and tear gas canisters in a nation of 320 million isn't signalling civil war or a revolution.

 

There are also plenty of reports of despicable acts of hate being carried out by some jubilant Trump supporters against blacks, hispanics etc, including on US college campuses, and apparently by "educated" college students.

 

 

Yes I agree, it was only some students - I was referring to the ones in the media clips. Most students and decent everyday citizens have accepted what happened in the election and are not babbling like little snowflakes.

 

If they were Trump supporters, then they need their bloody heads banging together. 


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  # 1668472 12-Nov-2016 12:03
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Fred99:

PhantomNVD:
Fred99:


he's certainly quite the showman and seemed to be ad libbing much of the time. Incredibly, he managed to do it without alienating the hard religious right




FWiW the "hard" religious right didn't all like Trump's racist and isolationist standpoint, but absolutely detested Hillaries 40-week-abortion goal, and the fact that she'd get to appoint 3 Supreme Court justice, who will be serving when the epic Roe vs Wade appeal comes up again soon.

Links to the satanist church (whether or not true) were also suggested, which will always get strong opposition from any faith based voter (Muslim and Jew too).

Basically there wasn't a 'good' candidate for anyone this election, so I think most voted against the worse one (in their opinion) rather than FOR one they liked.


 


You're incredibly deceived if you believe what you're saying here about HRC's "40-week-abortion goal" - which is nothing more than a blatant lie concocted by Trump.  Would you like me to explain in detail why pregnancy termination at longer term (than might be less traumatic to all) is sometimes a medical necessity, or is it better to let pig-ignorant delusional religious zealots dictate to women and medical experts?


It's also remarkable that you'd feel need to qualify the comment on alleged links to the satanist church as "whether or not true", as if there was doubt that it could be anything other than wild, malicious nonsense.


 


 



Angry ranting much?

I didn't vote (btw) so it's not even me you're angry with here...

I daughter to answer a question, not espouse an opinion. Lies were spread on BOTH sides, but many many people were swayed by the media slant that their chosen news media reported, especially as both sides polarised, and I simply commented on some reasons the "far right" have given for making their choice.

I see you jumped straight to the far left "medical reasons" excuse for killing children in utero, and seem to see no validity in the idea that they may be seen as humans before they are born, so let's leave that alone as we won't agree, and simply agree that many people were led by their own view of morality, and swayed by strong meadow pressure to revile the opponent in BOTH sides of this argument.

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  # 1668474 12-Nov-2016 12:09
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Fred99:

Except for Helen Clarke, who AFAIK always played a fair game, conceding few goals to her opponents during her career.



Comes to mind

Pledge cards and over spending
Paintergate signing artwork you didn't paint
The speeding motorcade
Photoshopped placards

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  # 1668489 12-Nov-2016 12:26
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gzt:
Are both houses now majority Republican? Impeachment seems unlikely if that is the case. Even so the threat of impeachment seems fairly useful to the Republican party.

 

Yes.

 

But it also depends what Trump does - his support amongst GOP is hardly unanimous - if he turns himself into such a liability that polls started to swing showing that the GOP would be wiped out in mid-term elections, his own party may strike first.

 

Talking above about protests etc, and poor behaviour by some in the anti-Trump movement, it's really a serious strategic mistake if that's allowed to carry on - they need to pull their heads in.  I doubt Trump can hold support - there's far too much press freedom, far too much respect for the constitution - most people are decent people.  I surely hope and expect he'll self-destruct.  But if the anti-Trump movement does become a threat to stability, I have no doubt that Trump will use that to his advantage, isolate and condemn another entire group as "a danger and threat" .


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  # 1668491 12-Nov-2016 12:30
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nathan:
Fred99:

 

Except for Helen Clarke, who AFAIK always played a fair game, conceding few goals to her opponents during her career.

 



Comes to mind

Pledge cards and over spending
Paintergate signing artwork you didn't paint
The speeding motorcade
Photoshopped placards

 

 

 

Helen Clarke (sic - original mistake not made by me) was goalie for the Black Sticks.

 

Sorry - I should have put the extra "e" in bold/italics.


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  # 1668493 12-Nov-2016 12:32
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Fred99:

 

gzt:
Are both houses now majority Republican? Impeachment seems unlikely if that is the case. Even so the threat of impeachment seems fairly useful to the Republican party.

 

Yes.

 

But it also depends what Trump does - his support amongst GOP is hardly unanimous - if he turns himself into such a liability that polls started to swing showing that the GOP would be wiped out in mid-term elections, his own party may strike first.

 

Talking above about protests etc, and poor behaviour by some in the anti-Trump movement, it's really a serious strategic mistake if that's allowed to carry on - they need to pull their heads in.  I doubt Trump can hold support - there's far too much press freedom, far too much respect for the constitution - most people are decent people.  I surely hope and expect he'll self-destruct.  But if the anti-Trump movement does become a threat to stability, I have no doubt that Trump will use that to his advantage, isolate and condemn another entire group as "a danger and threat" .

 

 

Trump may not be as dumb, he might have a team around him that has decent support from the senate and the house to mediate and do the donkey work.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1668496 12-Nov-2016 12:37
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joker97:

 

Fred99:

 

gzt:
Are both houses now majority Republican? Impeachment seems unlikely if that is the case. Even so the threat of impeachment seems fairly useful to the Republican party.

 

Yes.

 

But it also depends what Trump does - his support amongst GOP is hardly unanimous - if he turns himself into such a liability that polls started to swing showing that the GOP would be wiped out in mid-term elections, his own party may strike first.

 

Talking above about protests etc, and poor behaviour by some in the anti-Trump movement, it's really a serious strategic mistake if that's allowed to carry on - they need to pull their heads in.  I doubt Trump can hold support - there's far too much press freedom, far too much respect for the constitution - most people are decent people.  I surely hope and expect he'll self-destruct.  But if the anti-Trump movement does become a threat to stability, I have no doubt that Trump will use that to his advantage, isolate and condemn another entire group as "a danger and threat" .

 

 

Trump may not be as dumb, he might have a team around him that has decent support from the senate and the house to mediate and do the donkey work.

 

 

IMHO he will just be a figurehead. Every idea he has, dumb or serious, the team will tell him the 38 reasons why not. He may have gaffes. State stuff then backtrack, I can see that  a lot as his mouth runs ahead of what his team tell him what can and cannot be done. Then it will all become obvious when his oration rarely turns into action. 


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