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929 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 1700874 10-Jan-2017 13:00
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Rikkitic:

 

Heroes can be flawed and I readily accept that both Assange and Snowden are. But I still regard them as heroes. What they did required immense courage and personal sacrifice. It is not easy to hold a superpower like America, with enormous potential for abuse, to account. For years the USA has been trying to discredit Assange and Wikileaks to reduce their ability to influence public opinion and to a considerable extent they have succeeded. Whatever Assange's shortcomings, nothing changes the fact that US soldiers were murdering and torturing innocent civilians with impunity and laughing about it until Wikileaks exposed them. The NSA thinks it has the right to spy on everyone in the world without any accountability and Snowden rightly called them to task for that. Of course these people have shortcomings and of course the American authorities and others in their pocket do everything possible to publicise and exploit those but it does not detract from the value and importance of what they did. They are heroes and if there was justice in the world they would be feted as such.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

+1

 

Agree with that completely


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Uber Geek


  # 1700876 10-Jan-2017 13:02
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MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

I am not convinced by the whole thing. The US needs and loves enemies, if it does not have any they will create them as they make great distractions and deflections. It does not matter who the President is or from what cabaret group they are from, Their national anthem should be...

 

 

The US is about 5% of the world population, about 25% of the world wealth, and spends more on its military than the combined expenditure of the next ten most powerful nations.

 

This time there's going to be a president who's a vengeful, evil, petulant, cry-baby. 

 

That's "unpresidented".

 

 

 

 

I am not really into name calling so I will ignore the second line. As for the message, it would not be logical for a man that has accumulation of wealth as his prime motivator to use those weapons as it would wreak the very thing he loves the most.

 

 

That's not "name calling" - it's the truth with plenty of evidence to support it, much of it from the filthy dirty rat's own mouth or twitter feed.

 

There's no "logic" to megalomania, no "future" in kleptocracy, no "reason" for inciting hate.

 

He isn't rational - and can't be expected to behave logically.

 

Accumulation of wealth may well be a second motivator - not a prime motivator. There's only so many pairs of trousers any person can wear.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1700888 10-Jan-2017 13:32
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Rikkitic:

 

Heroes can be flawed and I readily accept that both Assange and Snowden are. But I still regard them as heroes. What they did required immense courage and personal sacrifice. It is not easy to hold a superpower like America, with enormous potential for abuse, to account. For years the USA has been trying to discredit Assange and Wikileaks to reduce their ability to influence public opinion and to a considerable extent they have succeeded. Whatever Assange's shortcomings, nothing changes the fact that US soldiers were murdering and torturing innocent civilians with impunity and laughing about it until Wikileaks exposed them. The NSA thinks it has the right to spy on everyone in the world without any accountability and Snowden rightly called them to task for that. Of course these people have shortcomings and of course the American authorities and others in their pocket do everything possible to publicise and exploit those but it does not detract from the value and importance of what they did. They are heroes and if there was justice in the world they would be feted as such.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If they were heroes they would not be hiding especially Assange.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1700890 10-Jan-2017 13:34
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Fred99:

 

 

 

That's not "name calling" - it's the truth with plenty of evidence to support it, much of it from the filthy dirty rat's own mouth or twitter feed.

 

There's no "logic" to megalomania, no "future" in kleptocracy, no "reason" for inciting hate.

 

He isn't rational - and can't be expected to behave logically.

 

Accumulation of wealth may well be a second motivator - not a prime motivator. There's only so many pairs of trousers any person can wear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just don't believe name calling enhances a debate.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


gzt

11043 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1700910 10-Jan-2017 14:07
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DarthKermit:

Fred99:


 


He's a thin-skinned bullying vengeful petulant cry-baby. 



Whose about to have his pudgy tanned finger on the button.



Caption: Trump promises that soon all people will have orange tan free of charge!

3061 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1700915 10-Jan-2017 14:17
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MikeB4:

 

I personally think Julian Assange and Edward Snowden sacrifices was for the public good.

 

Their actions put the lives of servicemen and women at risk. Assange does it for glory, Snowden does it for glory then forgiveness.

 

 

Unlike, for example, the actions of generals and admirals. Who *definitely* don't do it for glory.

 

And "risk to servicemen" is a convenient, emotive, and difficult-to-disprove card to play, just like "risk to national security" and "suspected links to Al Qaeda" and WMD.

 

 


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  # 1700917 10-Jan-2017 14:25
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MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

 

 

That's not "name calling" - it's the truth with plenty of evidence to support it, much of it from the filthy dirty rat's own mouth or twitter feed.

 

There's no "logic" to megalomania, no "future" in kleptocracy, no "reason" for inciting hate.

 

He isn't rational - and can't be expected to behave logically.

 

Accumulation of wealth may well be a second motivator - not a prime motivator. There's only so many pairs of trousers any person can wear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just don't believe name calling enhances a debate.

 

 

When he makes a racist/misogynist statement designed to appeal to the low-end uneducated scum who support him, I'm not very interested in debating why what he said was evil.  He crosses a line (and does it repeatedly) and should be called out for what he is.

 

 


 
 
 
 


929 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 1700920 10-Jan-2017 14:32
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Sigh this is one of the main reasons Hillary lost calling all Trump voters scum won't go anywhere when trying to change the mind infact it does the exact opposite.

1759 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 1700924 10-Jan-2017 14:36
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Stan: Sigh this is one of the main reasons Hillary lost calling all Trump voters scum won't go anywhere when trying to change the mind infact it does the exact opposite.

 

 

 

When did she do this?

 

Sounds like more false news to me.


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  # 1700926 10-Jan-2017 14:38
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MikeB4:

 

If they were heroes they would not be hiding especially Assange.

 

 

This simplification of heroism is much beloved by powerful regimes. Opponents who "heroically" stand up and fight against them can be neutralised quickly. Opponents who don't get vilified as cowards.

 

A sensible "hero" doesn't let their opponent set the rules of engagement. Plenty of heroes have had to hide. The Resistance in WW2. Chindits. Coastwatchers. Submariners. Boers. Te Kooti. Robert the Bruce. Undercover Police.

 

A sensible person doesn't thoughtlessly accept the labels applied by a regime to their opponents.

 

 


929 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 1700927 10-Jan-2017 14:40
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I was referring to Fred's attitude but now you mention it she say half of Trump supporters are a basket of deplorables.

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  # 1700930 10-Jan-2017 14:43
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Stan: Sigh this is one of the main reasons Hillary lost calling all Trump voters scum won't go anywhere when trying to change the mind infact it does the exact opposite.

 

 

 

She didn't call them "scum" - she called them "deplorables".  Too many syllables for the intended audience.

 

She should have targeted them a little more accurately, but still called them scum.


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  # 1700932 10-Jan-2017 14:45
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Stan: I was referring to Fred's attitude but now you mention it she say half of Trump supporters are a basket of deplorables.

 

I have been calling Trump scum, and will continue to do so - because that's what he is.

 

Some of Trump's supporters are scum.  Some of them are in the Kremlin.


929 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 1700933 10-Jan-2017 14:51
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I play an mmorpg called world of warcraft except this is on a private vanilla server (Nostalrius) this means you generally get a large amount of diversity as it's a world wide server. I can tell you that there are those who openly support Trump in our guild (we talk over team speak) having talked to them for many hours on end while leveling about the political point of view I can say from what I know about them they are not deplorables or scum rather people do not feel connected with the current political establishment, who want a better future for the children with more jobs in there country. How far are you going to get with these people by calling them scum?

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  # 1700936 10-Jan-2017 14:55
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Stan: I play an mmorpg called world of warcraft except this is on a private vanilla server (Nostalrius) this means you generally get a large amount of diversity as it's a world wide server. I can tell you that there are those who openly support Trump in our guild (we talk over team speak) having talked to them for many hours on end while leveling about the political point of view I can say from what I know about them they are not deplorables or scum rather people do not feel connected with the current political establishment, who want a better future for the children with more jobs in there country. How far are you going to get with these people by calling them scum?

 

 

 

If you don't feel "connected with the political establishment" - supporting a megalomaniac fascist pig isn't a very smart alternative move.


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