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Lock him up!
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  # 2291549 7-Aug-2019 11:09
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marmel:

Once again political posturing, which in the big scheme of things means nothing.

A sitting president has never left office due to impeachment, (Nixon resigned).

Democrats are fully aware even if they can stop arguing amongst themselves and begin impeachment proceedings the Senate will never let it run unless there is a quantum shift in opinion amongst Republicans.

So effectively what you have is a big waste of time but some nice tabloid fodder for the media to feed to the hungry masses.

 

You seem to have a real fixation on Democrats. They are not the problem here. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2291552 7-Aug-2019 11:16
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Rikkitic:

marmel:

Once again political posturing, which in the big scheme of things means nothing.

A sitting president has never left office due to impeachment, (Nixon resigned).

Democrats are fully aware even if they can stop arguing amongst themselves and begin impeachment proceedings the Senate will never let it run unless there is a quantum shift in opinion amongst Republicans.

So effectively what you have is a big waste of time but some nice tabloid fodder for the media to feed to the hungry masses.


You seem to have a real fixation on Democrats. They are not the problem here. 


 



I dont have a fixation with any group, but if people are posting on here about things that anyone with common sense can tell you is never going to happen I'm happy to enlighten said person.

Perhaps some in this thread have a fixation with CNN?

 
 
 
 


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  # 2291556 7-Aug-2019 11:19
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marmel: 

So effectively what you have is a big waste of time but some nice tabloid fodder for the media to feed to the hungry masses.


It's not a waste of time for at least three reasons :-

1) It gives Democrats a legal avenue to shine a public spotlight on a lot of Trump behaviour that is currently shielded from view

 

2) It shows disenchanted voters that Democrats are actually trying to live up to their "Checks and balances" obligations

 

3) When the dirt is revealed (and it will be), it shows voters the extent to which the GOP have been covering up for Trump

 

So it may not end up with Trump being impeached, but it should help more moderate voters to get a more accurate picture of the level of corruption.


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  # 2291560 7-Aug-2019 11:23
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dclegg:

marmel: 

So effectively what you have is a big waste of time but some nice tabloid fodder for the media to feed to the hungry masses.


It's not a waste of time for at least three reasons :-

1) It gives Democrats a legal avenue to shine a public spotlight on a lot of Trump behaviour that is currently shielded from view


2) It shows disenchanted voters that Democrats are actually trying to live up to their "Checks and balances" obligations


3) When the dirt is revealed (and it will be), it shows voters the extent to which the GOP have been covering up for Trump


So it may not end up with Trump being impeached, but it should help more moderate voters to get a more accurate picture of the level of corruption.



And how much time/energy is going to be spent on this?

Wouldn't the Democrats be better off using the time they have before the next election to present to the public an alternative to Trump with good policy/ideas that the US can get behind.

Seems to me there has been way too much time spent pointing the finger and trying to get rid of Trump when perhaps they would of been better off being a bit more positive about what they can change/achieve.

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  # 2291568 7-Aug-2019 11:40
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marmel:

 


And how much time/energy is going to be spent on this?

Wouldn't the Democrats be better off using the time they have before the next election to present to the public an alternative to Trump with good policy/ideas that the US can get behind.

Seems to me there has been way too much time spent pointing the finger and trying to get rid of Trump when perhaps they would of been better off being a bit more positive about what they can change/achieve.



As much as it takes.

This is far more than just finger pointing. Any serious analysis of the Mueller report shows that they currently have a POTUS in office that has committed multiple provable criminal offences. And many more could not be proven fully (but are suspected) because of this. An impeachment inquiry would help shift the public perception on this immensely. Because currently the public and mainstream media are falling for Trump's line on this.

And if they don't keep hammering on about foreign interference, there is no way the Democrats will ever get a fair and free tilt at the 2020 election anyway. There is no point having the most attractive candidate in the world if they will never get a fair chance at the ballot box.



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  # 2291578 7-Aug-2019 12:03
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dclegg:

marmel:



And how much time/energy is going to be spent on this?

Wouldn't the Democrats be better off using the time they have before the next election to present to the public an alternative to Trump with good policy/ideas that the US can get behind.

Seems to me there has been way too much time spent pointing the finger and trying to get rid of Trump when perhaps they would of been better off being a bit more positive about what they can change/achieve.



As much as it takes.

This is far more than just finger pointing. Any serious analysis of the Mueller report shows that they currently have a POTUS in office that has committed multiple provable criminal offences. And many more could not be proven fully (but are suspected) because of this. An impeachment inquiry would help shift the public perception on this immensely. Because currently the public and mainstream media are falling for Trump's line on this.

And if they don't keep hammering on about foreign interference, there is no way the Democrats will ever get a fair and free tilt at the 2020 election anyway. There is no point having the most attractive candidate in the world if they will never get a fair chance at the ballot box.




Do you really think the American public have the stomach for another 18 months of this? Given that it isn't going to result in impeachment and it is extremely unlikely to make any difference to Trump supporters why bother.

I dont think impeachment is going to achieve any of the points you outlined.

I think most people are just over it to be honest and are just looking towards 2020 to hopefully put it behind them. Now if Trump wins again who knows what will happen, another 4 years of this?

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  # 2291581 7-Aug-2019 12:10
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I think the impeachment topic is also causing some rifts within the Democrats. Pelosi is obviously not keen, she has been there a long time and knows that path is frought with difficulties, one being the reaction of the public.

Do they want to be seen as flogging a dead horse?

I think Trump being impeached is about as likely as the "green new deal" becoming a reality.

 
 
 
 


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  # 2291586 7-Aug-2019 12:14
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marmel: 

 

Do you really think the American public have the stomach for another 18 months of this? Given that it isn't going to result in impeachment and it is extremely unlikely to make any difference to Trump supporters why bother.



Trump supporters are around 30% of the voting public, and will never be reached. There is no point at all trying to reach them. But there are plenty of moderates and swing voters who may have fallen for Trump's pre-election rhetoric who will be convinced by an impeachment inquiry. 

For what it's worth, Nixon makes an interesting case study for why an impeachment inquiry can be helpful here.


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  # 2291594 7-Aug-2019 12:20
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marmel:

Once again political posturing, which in the big scheme of things means nothing.

A sitting president has never left office due to impeachment, (Nixon resigned).

Democrats are fully aware even if they can stop arguing amongst themselves and begin impeachment proceedings the Senate will never let it run unless there is a quantum shift in opinion amongst Republicans.

So effectively what you have is a big waste of time but some nice tabloid fodder for the media to feed to the hungry masses.

 

 

 

At the start of the process Nixon had very high approval ratings. The Senate Republicans would not have voted to convict. However the information which came out in the impeachment hearings swung public opinion massively against him. Enough Republican senators then saw the writing on the wall and shifted against him. Nixon saw what was going to happen and cut a deal to jump before the hammer could fall.

 

They need to use the impeachment process to get the information out in to the public to cause the shift among Republicans, they need to try to stop following the narrative and actually start leading it if they want to get anything done.


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  # 2291596 7-Aug-2019 12:26
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Varkk:

marmel:

Once again political posturing, which in the big scheme of things means nothing.

A sitting president has never left office due to impeachment, (Nixon resigned).

Democrats are fully aware even if they can stop arguing amongst themselves and begin impeachment proceedings the Senate will never let it run unless there is a quantum shift in opinion amongst Republicans.

So effectively what you have is a big waste of time but some nice tabloid fodder for the media to feed to the hungry masses.


 


At the start of the process Nixon had very high approval ratings. The Senate Republicans would not have voted to convict. However the information which came out in the impeachment hearings swung public opinion massively against him. Enough Republican senators then saw the writing on the wall and shifted against him. Nixon saw what was going to happen and cut a deal to jump before the hammer could fall.


They need to use the impeachment process to get the information out in to the public to cause the shift among Republicans, they need to try to stop following the narrative and actually start leading it if they want to get anything done.



Do you not think after a 2 year investigation, multiple days of findings being presented including by Mueller on a couple of those days that the information is already before the public. I mean let's face it there is a sizable portion of the media that are not shy about reporting on every little detail about what Trump has been up to.

The information is already out there and has been for some time.

If the brains trust in the democrats thought impeachment was going to be a positive for them Trump would of been impeached by now.

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  # 2291614 7-Aug-2019 13:03
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marmel: Perhaps some in this thread have a fixation with CNN?


I assume this is a slight regarding Fox News versus every other media outlet.






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  # 2291616 7-Aug-2019 13:18
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kingdragonfly:
marmel: Perhaps some in this thread have a fixation with CNN?


I assume this is a slight regarding Fox News versus every other media outlet.







It was a reply to what I thought was a fairly silly statement in the first place.

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  # 2291628 7-Aug-2019 13:29
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A masterful understatement ...

 

The Washington Post - Trump plans visits to El Paso and Dayton, where he won’t be universally welcome

 

August 6 at 1:03 PM

 


President Trump is preparing to visit El Paso and Dayton, Ohio, on Wednesday, appearances that will not be universally welcome as the two cities grieve from weekend mass shootings that left 31 dead and many injured and rattled. ...

 

Several Democratic officials have urged Trump not to visit El Paso, a city of about 683,000 with a largely Latino population, in the aftermath of Saturday’s anti-immigrant attack at a Walmart Supercenter that left 22 dead. ...

 

“This president, who helped create the hatred that made Saturday’s tragedy possible, should not come to El Paso,” former congressman Beto O’Rourke (D-Tex.) tweeted late Monday afternoon. “We do not need more division. We need to heal. He has no place here.” ...

 

And on Tuesday afternoon, Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley (D) encouraged people unhappy over Trump’s upcoming visit to the city of about 140,000 to protest.

 

“I think people should stand up and say they’re not happy if they’re not happy he’s coming,” Whaley told reporters. ...

 



 





Sideface


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  # 2291631 7-Aug-2019 13:35
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Sideface:

A masterful understatement ...


The Washington Post - Trump plans visits to El Paso and Dayton, where he won’t be universally welcome


August 6 at 1:03 PM



President Trump is preparing to visit El Paso and Dayton, Ohio, on Wednesday, appearances that will not be universally welcome as the two cities grieve from weekend mass shootings that left 31 dead and many injured and rattled. ...


Several Democratic officials have urged Trump not to visit El Paso, a city of about 683,000 with a largely Latino population, in the aftermath of Saturday’s anti-immigrant attack at a Walmart Supercenter that left 22 dead. ...


“This president, who helped create the hatred that made Saturday’s tragedy possible, should not come to El Paso,” former congressman Beto O’Rourke (D-Tex.) tweeted late Monday afternoon. “We do not need more division. We need to heal. He has no place here.” ...


And on Tuesday afternoon, Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley (D) encouraged people unhappy over Trump’s upcoming visit to the city of about 140,000 to protest.


“I think people should stand up and say they’re not happy if they’re not happy he’s coming,” Whaley told reporters. ...







So some media have leveled criticism for Trump not being involved enough, being away playing golf etc, is there a happy medium everyone will be satisfied with.

I would guarantee that if he hadn't visited he would have been criticized just as much.

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  # 2291636 7-Aug-2019 13:45
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marmel:

It was a reply to what I thought was a fairly silly statement in the first place.

 

Is that what it was? What does it have to do with CNN? I thought that was a pretty silly statement.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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