Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | ... | 37
11531 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3701

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1879801 9-Oct-2017 11:49
One person supports this post
Send private message

tdgeek:

 

Geektastic:

 

Rodney Hide's article in the Herald about MMP encapsulated the present position well, I thought.

 

 

What alternative do you suggest? When the largest party recieves 44% of the vote. And the second largest bloc recieves about 1 percent less?

 

 

 

 

I think that there are other versions of PR that would work better for us.

 

We need to avoid situations like the present one, where the election is largely pointless - we may as well have just phoned the party in question and asked them to pick the government.

 

I would suggest some sort of amendment whereby the party with the largest vote share gets automatic first go in negotiating.






12607 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5918

Trusted

  Reply # 1879819 9-Oct-2017 11:56
One person supports this post
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

tdgeek:

 

Geektastic:

 

Rodney Hide's article in the Herald about MMP encapsulated the present position well, I thought.

 

 

What alternative do you suggest? When the largest party recieves 44% of the vote. And the second largest bloc recieves about 1 percent less?

 

 

 

 

I think that there are other versions of PR that would work better for us.

 

We need to avoid situations like the present one, where the election is largely pointless - we may as well have just phoned the party in question and asked them to pick the government.

 

I would suggest some sort of amendment whereby the party with the largest vote share gets automatic first go in negotiating.

 

 

I agree in general that it is probably timely for a review of the system. A healthy democracy should also look a the system to see if it can be improved upon. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


Mad Scientist
18632 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2368

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1879820 9-Oct-2017 11:56
One person supports this post
Send private message

tdgeek:

 

Geektastic:

 

Rodney Hide's article in the Herald about MMP encapsulated the present position well, I thought.

 

 

What alternative do you suggest? When the largest party recieves 44% of the vote. And the second largest bloc recieves about 1 percent less?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of FPP or MMP

 

How about other versions of selecting for example

 

MMP - If major party cannot get coalition they have choice to form a minority govt or a re-election.

 

MMP - Instead of a tick for party vote, you RANK the parties. Some form of permutation where if your party does not make 5% you can choose another party, that has made the 5% threshold.

 

FPP - Rank parties and by elimination until one party stands. Eg Party 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Say first round party 4 is lowest. Then all of the party 4 votes get redistributed. Then second round ... third round.

 

There are more things in life than the "that's how we always do it" way.


12593 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2239

Trusted

  Reply # 1879825 9-Oct-2017 12:00
Send private message

Or MMP, and no coalition. So every bill is voted by the MMP MP's, a minority Govt in todays case

 

 


158 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 77


  Reply # 1879828 9-Oct-2017 12:01
Send private message

How would they work better? Why would they not end up in the position where one party is in the middle and gets to play off the opposing blocks to form a government?

 

 

 

MMP works fairly well. I would just like to see some tweaks, drop the threshold to 3% or even lower. Remove the electorate rule.

 

Everyone has been fine with MMP right up until Winston was placed in to the current position by the vote totals. Also pre-election negotiating is pointless. You can't come out with a deal until you know what everyone has. Besides everyone knew the positions going in to the election. Labour/Green on the left. National/Act on the right. Winston in the middle. Maori Party probably supporting National again despite the wishes of their voters.


12607 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5918

Trusted

  Reply # 1879830 9-Oct-2017 12:05
Send private message

tdgeek:

Or MMP, and no coalition. So every bill is voted by the MMP MP's, a minority Govt in todays case


 



Given that most of the work of Government is done outside the Chamber it is kind of pointless. Also that could lead to political paralysis.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


12593 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2239

Trusted

  Reply # 1879837 9-Oct-2017 12:19
Send private message

MikeB4:
tdgeek:

 

Or MMP, and no coalition. So every bill is voted by the MMP MP's, a minority Govt in todays case

 

 

 

 

 



Given that most of the work of Government is done outside the Chamber it is kind of pointless. Also that could lead to political paralysis.

 

Yes, no mandate, and no ability to pass a law the Govt decides to, so it needs cooperation. It would effectively be a negotiation issue for every Bill. If some here feel that MMP doesnt work, coalitions dont work, then a minority Govt is the only other option. A benefit is there is dilution of radical ideas, and a need to work together, rather than oppose everything as you are paid to oppose everything. The adversarial way the Govt is run is stupid. One party who gets 50.1% of the seats can do whatever it likes. You oppose as thats what you do. A Minority Govt and the other parties would have to work together, so the non Govt parties would be able to get things done in a minority Govt, the other option is they will never get anything done. Or you end up with a coalition, thats the only other option. Similar issues to a minority Govt, except the latter is far more flexible, and more representative of all parties  


12607 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5918

Trusted

  Reply # 1879844 9-Oct-2017 12:26
2 people support this post
Send private message

This post election coalition negotiations go against democracy. These should be done prior election and the scenarios presented to the voting public prior election. This way when you are casting your vote you know what you are voting for. This current system of back room secret negotiations is not how to do things and I feel (MY OPINION) that this is not what folks had in mind when MMP was selected as system of voting.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


Mad Scientist
18632 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2368

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1879848 9-Oct-2017 12:37
2 people support this post
Send private message

Voting for any human is never very democratic. What they say is almost never what they do.

 

Maybe we should vote for policies! And have annual review of said policies! Anyway I like NZF's policies, after the fact. Here's hoping they will be implemented!


12607 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5918

Trusted

  Reply # 1879851 9-Oct-2017 12:41
Send private message

Batman:

 

Voting for any human is never very democratic. What they say is almost never what they do.

 

Maybe we should vote for policies! And have annual review of said policies! Anyway I like NZF's policies, after the fact. Here's hoping they will be implemented!

 

 

Nah, we need an absolute Monarch after all that is where the US is heading or in the nighty fantasies of the current POTUS  they are.tongue-out 

 

 

 

Government of the people, by the people, for the people, gets  screwed by the people





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


Mad Scientist
18632 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2368

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1879876 9-Oct-2017 13:24
Send private message

MikeB4:

Government of the people, by the people, for the people, gets  screwed by the POTUS



There i fixed it for you

1103 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 449


  Reply # 1879985 9-Oct-2017 17:01
Send private message

gulfa:

 

My thoughts
Sit down with his group and list all their policies and line them up with each party
Decide which ones they want implemented in order of importance and which ones are non- negotiable.
Then decide what position he wants in the ruling party. If he is true to his word and beliefs he does not need to push for a prominent position but instead get his policies implemented. This will then show his followers and the rest of us that it is not all about him, which many seem to believe.
He has already said he has been this minister or had that position before. I believe if what he wants for his party and followers he should accept any position in Cabinet not necessarily Deputy PM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Going back to the original opening post above and what will Winston do?

 

I believe he is very shrewd and he will do what is right for his party and the country .......... they will go to the cross benches. I think he is smart enough to have already formulated that very strong prospect on election night as the votes came through.


12593 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2239

Trusted

  Reply # 1880143 9-Oct-2017 23:53
Send private message

DaveB:

 

 

 

 

 

Going back to the original opening post above and what will Winston do?

 

I believe he is very shrewd and he will do what is right for his party and the country .......... they will go to the cross benches. I think he is smart enough to have already formulated that very strong prospect on election night as the votes came through.

 

a

 

As in support for Confidence and Supply?

 

With that, can anyone define the Confidence meaning. I gather it means key legislation, but what is "key" legislation? What was agreed? 

 

I gather he can still obtain out of Cabinet Ministries as Peter Dunne had. Perhaps if there was some but not enough agreement in negations he can go it alone, and have smaller agreements for NZF policies and agree to support some National policies, but otherwise, he can vote for or against Govt, or Labour/Green.

 

With those here that say that a coalition is not democratic, perhaps cross benches is? 


Mad Scientist
18632 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2368

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1880185 10-Oct-2017 08:45
Send private message

Confidence means - if there is a vote of no confidence in the PM-ship they will vote for confidence. Ie prevent any motion of no confidence nonsense.


12593 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2239

Trusted

  Reply # 1880188 10-Oct-2017 08:49
Send private message

Batman:

 

Confidence means - if there is a vote of no confidence in the PM-ship they will vote for confidence. Ie prevent any motion of no confidence nonsense.

 

 

Ok, so they stand by the Govt. What about when say there are 5 bills to be voted on, does this confidence extend to supporting those?


1 | ... | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | ... | 37
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Hawaiki Transpacific cable ready-for-service
Posted 20-Jul-2018 11:29


Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central launches
Posted 10-Jul-2018 10:40


Spark completes first milestone in voice platform upgrade
Posted 10-Jul-2018 09:36


Microsoft ices heated developers
Posted 6-Jul-2018 20:16


PB Technologies charged for its extended warranties and warned for bait advertising
Posted 3-Jul-2018 15:45


Almost 20,000 people claim credits from Spark
Posted 29-Jun-2018 10:40


Cove sells NZ's first insurance policy via chatbot
Posted 25-Jun-2018 10:04


N4L helping TAKA Trust bridge the digital divide for Lower Hutt students
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:08


Winners Announced for 2018 CIO Awards
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:03


Logitech Rally sets new standard for USB-connected video conference cameras
Posted 18-Jun-2018 09:27


Russell Stanners steps down as Vodafone NZ CEO
Posted 12-Jun-2018 09:13


Intergen recognised as 2018 Microsoft Country Partner of the Year for New Zealand
Posted 12-Jun-2018 08:00


Finalists Announced For Microsoft NZ Partner Awards
Posted 6-Jun-2018 15:12


Vocus Group and Vodafone announce joint venture to accelerate fibre innovation
Posted 5-Jun-2018 10:52


Kogan.com to launch Kogan Mobile in New Zealand
Posted 4-Jun-2018 14:34



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.