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21913 posts

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  #1989231 6-Apr-2018 09:09
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My gut is that she doesn't have the locker room. This means that everyone knows she's "da boss" but a fair number of the "players" don't have confidence in her coaching ability.

 

I think WP and the Greens will do whatever it takes to stay in power, so as much as I'd like an early election, I think they will stumble to a 2020 election.

 

 


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  #1989232 6-Apr-2018 09:11
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networkn:

 

MaxLV:

 

networkn:

 

MaxLV:

 

Play the ball, not the man....

 

 

I am. I am having a go at your persistent behaviour of trying to change the focus from Labour and the mess it's making, to the National Government and what it may or may not have done. 

 

 

 

 

No you're not. EOS

 

 

Yes, I am EOS x Infinity!

 

 

Revisted:

 

firstly the reason for this forum is: Please use this forum for any political discussion. You have to agree to disagree. This forum does not appear on Geekzone Live or Geekzone homepage. FUG rules still apply. Disagreements on political views is not a personal attack. Political threads created in other sub-forums will be deleted.

 

There (as far as I'm aware, and going by the above reason for this forum) no reason why I or anyone else cant 'try to change the focus' of any discussion in this forum. And hey you yourself do this regularly.

As to why I do it, is because most of the things the current government doing, and that you object to, are being done as a direct result of the previous governments fiscal mismanagement and incompetence, that the current government now has to fix.

 

Another one has 'come home to roost' this morning. The National government estimated that refixing repairs done to damaged houses in Christchurch would have cost 60 million. The reality is that it is four times that amount. ($270 million)  Gerry Brownlee tried hard to justify this discrepancy on RNZ this morning and failed miserably. This will be another thing the current government will have to fix and that you'll no doubt 'object to'.


 
 
 
 


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  #1989235 6-Apr-2018 09:21
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rjt123:
MaxLV:

 

rjt123: "There will be no new taxes or levies introduced in our first term of Government beyond those we have already announced."
- Grant Robertson

Was the likelihood of a Nationwide fuel levy announced before the election? I couldn't see any record of it.



 

 

 

The fiscal mismanagement legacy of the previous National government:

"National’s roads of national significance – which have been eating up 40 % of the entire transport spend for roads that carry only 4% of the nation’s cars and trucks – is also politically significant. Having harvested votes from the regions at every election, National has proceeded to starve provincial New Zealand of their roading (and related road safety needs) between elections."

 

 

 

"Even National were going to be raising the fuel excise tax by 10-20 cents a litre in order to pay for their Roads of National Significance. So…any which way you look at it, fixing up the past nine years of neglect of our transport needs was always going to involve extra money and some additional hardship. How much? The new draft transport plan unveiled yesterday envisages adding about 3 to 4 cents a litre each year for the next three years, to the cost of petrol."

 

 

 

http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/04/gordon-campbell-on-making-our-roads-safer-less-congested/

HTH

 



I think you missed the point (or conveniently ignored it), being not that labour increased it, but that they said they weren't going to. A significant theme running through this thread has been about Labour's broken promises and their lack of honesty.

Personally I'm not too concerned about an increase in the tax because it doesn't really affect me. what I don't like is that Robertson and Jacinda denied furiously the $11 billion hole and now they're scrambling to cover up it's growing reality.

 

 

 

The so called 'broken promises and perceived lack of honesty' are nothing more than the opinions of several participants in this thread. The reality is that the Coalition government (not just Labour) did meet their 100 day target, as promised, and they're doing what they promised, over the objections of the previous incompetent government and it's supporters.

The so called 11 billion fiscal hole was and is 'fake news' of the National party. The reality is that due to the fiscal mismanagement and outright incompetence of the previous government have caused a large amount of unforeseen fiscal expenditure the current government will have to find the money for.

 

Week by week, the sheer scale of the neglect to crucial social infrastructure by the Key/English government becomes apparent – and with it the size (and expense) of the problems they’ve left behind, for the Ardern government to somehow address. The mouldering walls and the decaying electricity and sewage systems at Middlemore Hospital serve as a perfect symbol of the dilapidation that’s been fostered by pressure to meet the political goals of budgetary constraint. All of it done so that John Key and Bill English could brag about being capable managers, who kept expenditure under control – as if balancing the books was an end in itself.

 

Gordon Campbell.

 

http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/04/gordon-campbell-on-middlemore-hospital-as-a-symptom-of-neglect/

 

 


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  #1989237 6-Apr-2018 09:30
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This link from a previous post

 

http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/04/gordon-campbell-on-making-our-roads-safer-less-congested/

 

I hope all you haters of this present Govt read this. It makes sense . Also read the Middlemore hospital link as well.  


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  #1989240 6-Apr-2018 09:34
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MaxLV:

 

The so called 11 billion fiscal hole was and is 'fake news' of the National party. The reality is that due to the fiscal mismanagement and outright incompetence of the previous government have caused a large amount of unforeseen fiscal expenditure the current government will have to find the money for.

 

 

There is always going to be unforeseen expenditure, both for Governments and for companies and individuals. It's very clear that Jacinderalla has promised too much to her favourite projects and is dishing out money to such an extent that it's obvious that the previous more conservative approach of National was the way to go. The 11 billion fiscal hole is becoming a reality as the Government can now see for the first time.


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  #1989242 6-Apr-2018 09:36
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I thought name calling was banned 


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  #1989243 6-Apr-2018 09:37
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gulfa:

 

This link from a previous post

 

http://werewolf.co.nz/2018/04/gordon-campbell-on-making-our-roads-safer-less-congested/

 

I hope all you haters of this present Govt read this. It makes sense . Also read the Middlemore hospital link as well.  

 

 

The first paragraph suggests that National was going to rise the incise, but National says it was a recommendation that they didn't feel they would require as they had planned properly and didn't need it. 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #1989246 6-Apr-2018 09:40
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The problem I have is not with the tax itself, though it will hurt as many people as it helps. I can afford it, but lots of people in NZ can't. The issue is that Labour said there would be no new taxes or increases and they have gone back on this, which I believe is because there is (or will be)

 

a fiscal hole as a result of their lack of planning. It may not be 11B, but it's not going to be zero.  

 

 


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  #1989249 6-Apr-2018 09:43
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I guess we need to ask should we borrow more to finance these plans or hit the user pay system?


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  #1989258 6-Apr-2018 09:55
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gulfa:

 

I guess we need to ask should we borrow more to finance these plans or hit the user pay system?

 

 

 

 

Behind door number 3: stop spending money like it's going out of fashion on poorly thought out and poorly planned and executed policy.


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  #1989260 6-Apr-2018 09:59
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There is a real right-wing bias on this thread, with an apparent corresponding need to portray the government, its decisions, and – of course – its mistakes in the worst possible light. Many Geekzone members are tech people, and many of those run their own small businesses. Governments on the right, such as those led by National, are generally perceived to pursue policies that favour business, while those on the left are not. I wonder if this has anything to do with the tone of this thread.

 

I do not have an issue with pointing out the failures of our leaders, who certainly should be held to account, and I am not particularly impressed with the performance of this government up to now. The problem I have is that there seems to be an implicit assumption in the criticisms that a National government would somehow be the better alternative. I do not see this. When National were in power for nine years, they pursued policies that damaged the country in my opinion. I think it is valid to point those past failures out when looking at the performance of the present government. Since National is not in power today, it cannot be compared as if it were. Its past performance is the only thing that can be looked at.

 

National governments, or those in which National is the dominant influence, have very different priorities to Labour ones. National wants to build roads. Labour wants to improve public transport. Overall I find the priorities of the left more appealing than those of the right. That is why I vote for them.

 

There is an element of hysteria in some of the criticisms levelled here. Maybe this will turn out to be the worst government in the history of the country. Maybe it won’t. But Labour-led governments have not flushed the country down the toilet in the past and I don’t believe this one will, either.

 

Is Jacinda Ardern a weak leader? Maybe she just has a different leadership style. Maybe it is a male macho unforgiving power thing to jump on a Minister who makes a mistake and insist they should resign. Maybe a better approach is to let people learn from their mistakes so they can contribute more value. Maybe the more conciliatory cooperative female approach is to say that people make mistakes, and are entitled to a second chance. Maybe.

 

I expect this post will be met with the usual foaming responses. Bring it on.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


gzt

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  #1989265 6-Apr-2018 10:04
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gulfa:

I thought name calling was banned 


It is just click the report link and it goes away with a warning.

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  #1989293 6-Apr-2018 10:28
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@Rikkitic

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/28/new-zealands-claim-it-has-no-russian-spies-is-perplexing-why-is-it-isolating-itself

 

 

 

There's an example of an article from a publication with a well known left-leaning bias that clearly articulates the damage that the current government is doing to NZ on the international stage.

 

 

 

Leading and governing a country is not really the right place to start "learning on the job" or to begin making the transition from activist/objector to solution-finder/implementer.

 

 


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  #1989295 6-Apr-2018 10:32
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Rikkitic:

 

There is a real right-wing bias on this thread, with an apparent corresponding need to portray the government, its decisions, and – of course – its mistakes in the worst possible light. Many Geekzone members are tech people, and many of those run their own small businesses. Governments on the right, such as those led by National, are generally perceived to pursue policies that favour business, while those on the left are not. I wonder if this has anything to do with the tone of this thread.

 

I do not have an issue with pointing out the failures of our leaders, who certainly should be held to account, and I am not particularly impressed with the performance of this government up to now. The problem I have is that there seems to be an implicit assumption in the criticisms that a National government would somehow be the better alternative. I do not see this. When National were in power for nine years, they pursued policies that damaged the country in my opinion. I think it is valid to point those past failures out when looking at the performance of the present government. Since National is not in power today, it cannot be compared as if it were. Its past performance is the only thing that can be looked at.

 

National governments, or those in which National is the dominant influence, have very different priorities to Labour ones. National wants to build roads. Labour wants to improve public transport. Overall I find the priorities of the left more appealing than those of the right. That is why I vote for them.

 

There is an element of hysteria in some of the criticisms levelled here. Maybe this will turn out to be the worst government in the history of the country. Maybe it won’t. But Labour-led governments have not flushed the country down the toilet in the past and I don’t believe this one will, either.

 

Is Jacinda Ardern a weak leader? Maybe she just has a different leadership style. Maybe it is a male macho unforgiving power thing to jump on a Minister who makes a mistake and insist they should resign. Maybe a better approach is to let people learn from their mistakes so they can contribute more value. Maybe the more conciliatory cooperative female approach is to say that people make mistakes, and are entitled to a second chance. Maybe.

 

I expect this post will be met with the usual foaming responses. Bring it on.

 

 

 

 

There isnt a right winged bias here, but rather views expressed on intelligence.

 

Three months ago it could be said all the political opinionists who write for newspapers are showing a left wing bias toward JA, but are now showing a right wing bias against JA. Some people who expressed opinions in these forums could actually see through the smoke and mirrors displayed by the Govt. It doesnt take much intelligence to understand a Government formed from such diverse and inexperienced views was going to be in trouble sooner or later. Much more is going to come as we see people like Shane Jones with 4Billion$ in his back pocket dish out to his IWI friends. We are seeing Councils from the North to the South role out their silly ideas so that Jones will fund them.

 

There has been such a lolly scramble with OUR money in the first 6 months that is beyond belief, so much so that their important policies will not be funded. Recent announcements that our infamous 2 lane state highway one is too remain 2 lane is craziness.

 

The latest announcement today on current irrigation schemes losing funding because of the Greens is further example where regional business is being slammed.

 

Things will not get better, watch this space. But I guess according to your views this is just hysteria.


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  #1989329 6-Apr-2018 10:54
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This is certainly shaping up to be one of the most error-prone and absent-minded governments of modern times.

 

Jones says he forgot about official's warnings

 

Ms Sage says she was wrong all along - and that her memory let her down

 

Ms Ardern accepted an apology from Broadcasting Minister Clare Curran last week

 

And that's just in the last week!

 

The coalition must be thankful that the Consumer Guarantees Act doesn't have any jurisdiction in politics ;-)


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