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1439 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2001101 23-Apr-2018 14:00
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6FIEND:

 

(Personal admission here to reinforce your perception of me:  I removed a third option - that the government has actually got no idea how to govern, and establishing endless working groups buys them time to come up with coherent policy that they will be able to deliver against.  It is my personal belief that Labour never expected to win the 2017 election, and that their policies were primarily slogans and feel-good messaging that they never expected to have to implement.  As such, the policies lacked the underlying research or analysis required for them to function as a cohesive framework.  We are now seeing numerous examples of back-tracking, contradiction, and unforeseen consequences emerging that could reasonably be attributed to this lack of groundwork.)

 

 

Honestly I think this is largely the case; that while some slogans may have been malicious in their nature (attacking the Govt for 'inaction' on housing for instance, which is just politics, really); the reality of Labour in Govt has been relatively softly-softly and doesn't match the bellicose rhetoric of the campaign. The Working Groups may well be fait accompli on a large scale or effectively rubber-stamping bodies, but given the Govt majority that's all that was going to happen with any select committees anyway. If Labour passionately intended to be as radical as they were in the lead-up to the election, we'd have seen far more ambitious legislation being pushed through than we have so far. 


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  # 2001119 23-Apr-2018 14:20
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Reciprocity: This appears to be the Labour job-creation scheme right here.

 

 

 

All NZ governments have reviews, enquiries, select committees etc etc etc It is part of the normal process of government. Would folks rather they went off half cocked and uninformed. Also teh committee process is an integral part of our democratic system. If you were to go through our parliamentary history the above would not be out of teh ordinary.  





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek


  # 2001127 23-Apr-2018 14:39
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MikeB4:

 

All NZ governments have reviews, enquiries, select committees etc etc etc It is part of the normal process of government. Would folks rather they went off half cocked and uninformed. Also teh committee process is an integral part of our democratic system. If you were to go through our parliamentary history the above would not be out of teh ordinary.  

 

 

 

 

The issue I have is not with the process, but the sheer volume and focus of the enquiries/reviews/select committees. I think they're spreading themselves far too thin and need to concentrate on a few core issue and get them right, first time.


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  # 2001145 23-Apr-2018 15:20
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MikeB4:

 

Reciprocity: This appears to be the Labour job-creation scheme right here.

 

 

 

All NZ governments have reviews, enquiries, select committees etc etc etc It is part of the normal process of government. Would folks rather they went off half cocked and uninformed. Also teh committee process is an integral part of our democratic system. If you were to go through our parliamentary history the above would not be out of teh ordinary.  

 

 

Not to this extent Mike..and all within 6 months. Each one costs about $2Million.


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  # 2001181 23-Apr-2018 15:38
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@Pumpedd I have to disagree, my time in government tells me different. This is where the hard work in done and the MPSs earn their keep. These committees and reviews etc are bipartisan and open to lobbying and public submission. All governments do them and new governments have a higher number in the first term logically. That list is an example of good government in action.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


Lock him up!
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  # 2001209 23-Apr-2018 16:25
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6FIEND:

 

Conjecture based on an assumption that the 70,000 or so employees of the Public Service and other Crown Entities are at least nominally productive.

 

...that and not being able to come up with any other plausible options.

 

Of course, feel free to put forward some alternatives from a different point of view.  Then we can all consider which is most likely.

 

 

 

(Personal admission here to reinforce your perception of me:  I removed a third option - that the government has actually got no idea how to govern, and establishing endless working groups buys them time to come up with coherent policy that they will be able to deliver against.  It is my personal belief that Labour never expected to win the 2017 election, and that their policies were primarily slogans and feel-good messaging that they never expected to have to implement.  As such, the policies lacked the underlying research or analysis required for them to function as a cohesive framework.  We are now seeing numerous examples of back-tracking, contradiction, and unforeseen consequences emerging that could reasonably be attributed to this lack of groundwork.)

 

 

Your third option seems a bit cynical which is not how I perceive you. I perceive you much as I perceive @networkn - someone quite intelligent and well-informed with a fairly pronounced right-wing bias, though maybe somewhat less strident. No problems there except I think any bias (also mine, of course) inclines one to look for things that confirm it. I have a progressive bias. I don't care for some policies normally associated with the right and I think the National-led governments of the past nine years created more problems than they solved. I'm not happy with the way Labour is performing, but unlike some here, I don't see another National government as an answer to that. So I'm frustrated as well as biased. There does not seem to be a path to good, progressive government in this country. And no, that was not an oxymoron.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2001239 23-Apr-2018 18:35
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Reciprocity: Oops

 

Don't worry ......... it's now being discussed in the media here

 

Both as bad as each other methinks


 
 
 
 


bmt

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Ultimate Geek


  # 2001268 23-Apr-2018 21:00
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It's funny because politics is obviously partisan and it doesn't really matter what the party you voted against does, you are always going to be against it. Do action A and you think they should have done action B. Do action B and they should have done A. 

 

As above, Labour consults on things and gets experts in to have a say and they are supposedly clueless, directionless, wasting money, never thought they'd win so have no real policy etc.

 

But if none of it was happening and Labour was just barging on ahead you'd be accusing them of acting without evidence, ignoring the wishes of the people etc. 

 

I mean honestly, "I think they're spreading themselves far too thin and need to concentrate on a few core issue and get them right, first time."? If they did this then you'd accuse them of getting nothing done lol.

 

At the end of the day they're still the government, National has no friends and will likely still be in opposition in 2020 because they don't understand how MMP works. 


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  # 2001315 23-Apr-2018 21:58
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What would Clarke do?

(No points for "Whatever he is told to!")





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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2001319 23-Apr-2018 22:19
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bmt:

At the end of the day they're still the government, National has no friends and will likely still be in opposition in 2020 because they don't understand how MMP works. 



FYI, there has actually been a different mix of parties in every single election since 1999. This parliament has Nats, Labour, Greens,NZF and Therefore I am pretty certain that the next election will either see a new party emerge or one drop off that list. I'm not guessing because I have no clue, it could be beneficial or detrimental to National, or to Labour. But to assume that 2020 will deliver the same result as 2017 is not exactly logical or rational.

1439 posts

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  # 2001361 24-Apr-2018 07:35
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bmt:

 

At the end of the day they're still the government, National has no friends and will likely still be in opposition in 2020 because they don't understand how MMP works. 

 

 

Yes the biggest party in parliament and that governed for nine years prior has no idea how MMP works.


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Ultimate Geek


  # 2001513 24-Apr-2018 11:47
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Varkk:

 

[I keep seeing this comment about the RMA but when we built our house the RMA associated costs were so small to be insignificant. I think we spent more money on the legal fees for arranging our mortgage than we did on RMA compliance. It is often touted by individuals who want to gut the RMA for other reasons and house building seems to be one they think might get people on side.

 

 

You obviously haven't been involved in any substantial RMA related activities.

 

If you had, you'd know the lengthy time-lines involved (sometimes years), the costs from councils, consultants and Iwi, the NZTA consultation process and costs, the large contribution fees charged by councils, the infrastructure costs (local roads, power, gas, sewerage), and legal expenses to name a few. 

 

And it's not just subdivision where the issues arise, even opening a business can cause you to have to jump through these hoops.

 

 

 

 


1759 posts

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  # 2001518 24-Apr-2018 11:48
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BMT is just a troll ...quite sad really.


Lock him up!
10792 posts

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  # 2001547 24-Apr-2018 12:24
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@freitasm has gone on record stating there are no trolls on Geekzone. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


BDFL - Memuneh
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Uber Geek

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  # 2001554 24-Apr-2018 12:36
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An opinion is not trolling. Seriously, I don't see anything wrong in that. 

 

Folks need to realise that there will always be at least two sides for a discussion.





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