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  # 2003171 26-Apr-2018 23:42
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rjt123:
Geektastic:
Children should idolise scientists, surgeons, engineers, programmers and so on, not dumb schmucks who chase balls round fields.


Not entirely. They can idolize anyone they like, but they should be taught to idolize them for their success, their discipline and the hard work it took them to get there. The same underlying principles of success are the same for anyone who has reached the pinnacle of their field, be it science or sport.

 

 

 

Agreed


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  # 2003188 27-Apr-2018 07:48
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Geektastic: There is definitely a known and widely commented on (in articles etc) anti-intellectual streak that needs to be got rid of. Children should idolise scientists, surgeons, engineers, programmers and so on, not dumb schmucks who chase balls round fields.

 

Damn proles won't like the things that we know are best for them! Lousy blue collar slobs!

 

To actually respond, I can think of three All Black lawyers, an Olympian Chartered Accountant, an All Black engineer or two...you can see where this is going.

 

Stereotyping athletes as dumb jocks is frankly lazy and incredibly ironic given the point you think you're making. 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2003220 27-Apr-2018 08:12
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GV27:

Geektastic: There is definitely a known and widely commented on (in articles etc) anti-intellectual streak that needs to be got rid of. Children should idolise scientists, surgeons, engineers, programmers and so on, not dumb schmucks who chase balls round fields.


Damn proles won't like the things that we know are best for them! Lousy blue collar slobs!


To actually respond, I can think of three All Black lawyers, an Olympian Chartered Accountant, an All Black engineer or two...you can see where this is going.


Stereotyping athletes as dumb jocks is frankly lazy and incredibly ironic given the point you think you're making. 



The point I am making, since almost no one will idolise them for anything but the rugby if they even know the other information.





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  # 2003221 27-Apr-2018 08:25
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Geektastic: The point I am making, since almost no one will idolise them for anything but the rugby if they even know the other information.

 

Why is that bad though? What is so wrong with that? As long as they are well-rounded individuals, why not idolise them for the rugby?

 

I'm struggling to see how this is anything but cultural Marxism. 


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  # 2003222 27-Apr-2018 08:27
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networkn:

Geektastic:

Welfare also comes with political problems.

If you do stop paying, you must ultimately be prepared to allow some people to starve or freeze to death to motivate the others into realising that it won't go on forever and not working has unpleasant consequences.

Like hospitals running out of money and closing until next FY, no politician is going to do this.

Providing employment for people who do not want to work is likely to prove a manager's worst nightmare as well.

There needs to be a step change in aspirations in NZ. No one bright enough to be a doctor should end up felling timber, for example. It's a waste of human capital.

There is definitely a known and widely commented on (in articles etc) anti-intellectual streak that needs to be got rid of. Children should idolise scientists, surgeons, engineers, programmers and so on, not dumb schmucks who chase balls round fields.


Heh, I couldn't agree with some of these sentiments. Idolize whomever helps you get up in the morning and be the best you can be, even if that is someone who chases a ball for a living. 


You can't make smart people be doctors or scientists. I have a nephew, smartest kid I know. Saw a 3D printer and decided he wanted one, can't afford one, spends a bit of time examining one he likes, goes and buys parts cheaply and makes one, no schematic or experience. Works great. Smokes dope, expelled from school for peddling cigarettes and grows dope on an australian commune. He's happy. I can't understand it, but whatcha gonna do?


 


 



As I said before, you can lead a horse to water etc.

However. How well was he lead to water? How good were his parents? How good are the societal pressures that bear on him and make him feel this sort of choice is or isn’t good? How good was his school?

Had I begun going off the rails like that, my father would have administered a short, sharp shock early on which would doubtless have been painful on several levels. As would my headmasters. My mother would have told me how ashamed of me she was, as would my friends, their parents, my siblings and so on.

It’s why Asian children usually tend to do so well at school and so on - there is huge family pressure.

It’s all very well for society to be ‘she’ll be right’ but the modern world just does not reward that approach and I think it is on that level we need to see more change.

It’s a cultural shift that is needed to drive national success, not some band aid free breakfasts or free money. Elite athletes are great I am sure (although personally I see no point in what they do) but they are a minuscule percentage of the population and always will be. By all means enjoy watching them but to spend your formative years day dreaming about being one is in 99.99% of cases likely to be an unrealised dream if for no other reason than it requires you to win the genetic lottery.

We need a society that openly values intellect and business success so that the majority who can never be All Blacks or whatever can be encouraged and supported.

Sometimes I get the impression that it would be easier to tell your friends that you were gay than it would be to tell them you wanted to be a famous engineer!





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  # 2003225 27-Apr-2018 08:30
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GV27:

Geektastic: The point I am making, since almost no one will idolise them for anything but the rugby if they even know the other information.


Why is that bad though? What is so wrong with that? As long as they are well-rounded individuals, why not idolise them for the rugby?


I'm struggling to see how this is anything but cultural Marxism. 



I can’t help you with your struggle.

It’s a simple enough point. Society does not adequately value, IMHO, the things that will lead it to greater success in the future.





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  # 2003228 27-Apr-2018 08:34
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Of course the whole idea of idolizing a human is totally wrong. A human is not infallible, not even Jacinda, therefore they should not be idolize or worshipped, or we get the awkward Israel Folau situation (or countless others, where highly respected sportspersons or even lawyers have a spectacular fall from grace) and whoops our idol falls off it's pedestal and shatters.

 
 
 
 


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  # 2003293 27-Apr-2018 09:08
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Geektastic:

 


We need a society that openly values intellect and business success so that the majority who can never be All Blacks or whatever can be encouraged and supported.

Sometimes I get the impression that it would be easier to tell your friends that you were gay than it would be to tell them you wanted to be a famous engineer!

 

We do have a society that values intellect and business success. Most of the knighthoods in the last ten years have gone to capable businessmen. 

 

As for the second sentence, I don't really think that gels with NZ as a nation that likes to portray itself as innovators. Are you sure you don't just have a chip on your shoulder about this for some reason?


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  # 2003300 27-Apr-2018 09:21
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I don't say this often but I think @Geektastic has a point. Success in any endeavour is to be applauded, but there does seem to be a disproportionate admiration for rugby here.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2003316 27-Apr-2018 09:43
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I will be brutally honest here, I think the attitude displayed here regarding sport is snobbery mixed with envy and is total bollocks.  





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 2003320 27-Apr-2018 09:51
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Not sure about the snobbery but I can assure you there is no envy. I have wished I could have been a great novelist or scientist, never a great athlete.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 2003323 27-Apr-2018 09:51
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MikeB4:

I will be brutally honest here, I think the attitude displayed here regarding sport is snobbery mixed with envy and is total bollocks.  



You think it's compulsory to enjoy sport?





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  # 2003325 27-Apr-2018 09:56
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GV27:

Geektastic:



We need a society that openly values intellect and business success so that the majority who can never be All Blacks or whatever can be encouraged and supported.

Sometimes I get the impression that it would be easier to tell your friends that you were gay than it would be to tell them you wanted to be a famous engineer!


We do have a society that values intellect and business success. Most of the knighthoods in the last ten years have gone to capable businessmen. 


As for the second sentence, I don't really think that gels with NZ as a nation that likes to portray itself as innovators. Are you sure you don't just have a chip on your shoulder about this for some reason?



Not remotely.

But it all goes with believing that people who earn $100k are "rich" and that sort of thing.

Tall Poppy etc





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  # 2003327 27-Apr-2018 09:57
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Rikkitic:

Not sure about the snobbery but I can assure you there is no envy. I have wished I could have been a great novelist or scientist, never a great athlete.


 



Me neither. A less pointless endeavour it is hard to imagine.





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  # 2003339 27-Apr-2018 10:07
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There are plenty of rugby players earning over 100k.

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