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309 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2024099 28-May-2018 18:28
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Interesting comments from those in the know

 

DairyNZ says it stood with the government in support of the decision to try to eradicate the cattle disease from New Zealand.
"The decision wasn't made lightly and reflects our hope that the disease can be eradicated," said DairyNZ chair Jim van der Poel.
"Our farmers have been waiting for almost 11 months on a way forward and part of the challenge has been a lack of certainty about the long-term solution for New Zealand. Today we have that certainty.
"Over 99 per cent of our dairy herds in New Zealand have no signs of this disease, and we want to keep it that way," he said.
"DairyNZ has been actively – and passionately – working on behalf of our farmers to find a solution. We know that moving towards eradication will be a devastating decision for some, and will mean that thousands of animals will have to be culled.
"This was not an easy decision to make for those reasons, and our hearts and thoughts are with the farmers that have affected herds."
Federated Farmers president Katie Milne called it an "excruciating experience".
She said it was one of those times where "you've got to have a crack".
Beef+Lamb head Andrew Morrison said affected farmers were under huge pressure.
"It is a decision that could have gone either way."
But eradication was only on the table for a short time


bmt

484 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2024201 28-May-2018 19:56
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networkn:

 

bmt:

 

 

 

Interesting you focus on this without mentioning opinion is very split with the majority of opinion in favour of eradication. You would do well at Fox News!

 

New One News poll out tonight, backs up last night's Newshub poll with the Labour+Greens both still outpolling National. National has no friends and are still in trouble. Running out of time for that new conservative party!

 

 

No, I didn't mention opinion at all. I mentioned scientists and other countries who manage rather than eradicate. Nice try on the trolling though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh interesting, and which of those countries chose to manage rather than eradicate when only a few dozen farms were affected and it had only been in their country for a couple of years?


 
 
 
 


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  #2024237 28-May-2018 20:31
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bmt:

 

 

 

Oh interesting, and which of those countries chose to manage rather than eradicate when only a few dozen farms were affected and it had only been in their country for a couple of years?

 

 

 

 

It's clear that in this thread that no matter what decisions or actions taken by the Coalition they are wrong.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


1402 posts

Uber Geek


  #2024248 28-May-2018 20:45
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gulfa:

 

 

 

Interesting comments from those in the know

 

DairyNZ says it stood with the government in support of the decision to try to eradicate the cattle disease from New Zealand.
"The decision wasn't made lightly and reflects our hope that the disease can be eradicated," said DairyNZ chair Jim van der Poel.
"Our farmers have been waiting for almost 11 months on a way forward and part of the challenge has been a lack of certainty about the long-term solution for New Zealand. Today we have that certainty.
"Over 99 per cent of our dairy herds in New Zealand have no signs of this disease, and we want to keep it that way," he said.
"DairyNZ has been actively – and passionately – working on behalf of our farmers to find a solution. We know that moving towards eradication will be a devastating decision for some, and will mean that thousands of animals will have to be culled.
"This was not an easy decision to make for those reasons, and our hearts and thoughts are with the farmers that have affected herds."
Federated Farmers president Katie Milne called it an "excruciating experience".
She said it was one of those times where "you've got to have a crack".
Beef+Lamb head Andrew Morrison said affected farmers were under huge pressure.
"It is a decision that could have gone either way."
But eradication was only on the table for a short time

 

 

To sum up, it's too soon to throw in the towel. The Government has the support of DairyNZ and Fed. Farmers so that is good enough for me.


9224 posts

Uber Geek


  #2024320 28-May-2018 22:02
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amiga500:

 

To sum up, it's too soon to throw in the towel. The Government has the support of DairyNZ and Fed. Farmers so that is good enough for me.

 

 

I agree.

 

I've tried to read up as much as I could about diagnosis, vaccination, treatment, transmission/epidemiology.  It's extremely complex - the decisions need to be made by experts.

 

My gut feeling - it's probably a lost cause but an attempt at eradication has to be made as it's too early to say it's throwing good money after bad.


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  #2024341 28-May-2018 23:07
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Fred99:

 

amiga500:

 

To sum up, it's too soon to throw in the towel. The Government has the support of DairyNZ and Fed. Farmers so that is good enough for me.

 

 

I agree.

 

I've tried to read up as much as I could about diagnosis, vaccination, treatment, transmission/epidemiology.  It's extremely complex - the decisions need to be made by experts.

 

My gut feeling - it's probably a lost cause but an attempt at eradication has to be made as it's too early to say it's throwing good money after bad.

 

 

It will effect the economy...either by loss of exports or increases in dairy product prices or both.


bmt

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Ultimate Geek


  #2024374 29-May-2018 07:04
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MikeB4:

 

bmt:

 

 

 

Oh interesting, and which of those countries chose to manage rather than eradicate when only a few dozen farms were affected and it had only been in their country for a couple of years?

 

 

 

 

It's clear that in this thread that no matter what decisions or actions taken by the Coalition they are wrong.

 

 

100%. It amuses me that certain people in this thread would be outraged if the government decided to manage and would say they should be eradicating.

 

Or if National was in government and they chose to eradicate they would support the decision.

 

 

Mr Bridges this morning told Morning Report it's hard to say what course of action the opposition would take in this situation without seeing the scientific reports.

 

"The test is, if they have a reasonable, practical shot at eradication, they should still try for that with some off-ramps if they find that actually it's not working."

 

Mr Bridges said he has been in discussions with the prime minister, Nathan Guy and Damien O'Connor and he expects to be involved in finding a solution.

 

"We made it clear, let's not be political about this, it's too important, we want to be solutions-oriented.

 

"It comes down to the science, the advice they're getting from officials, we want to be very constructive about that and not second guess them, although we would like to see that evidence so we can run the ruler over it."

 

FANCY THAT!


 
 
 
 


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  #2024419 29-May-2018 09:01
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bmt:

 

100%. It amuses me that certain people in this thread would be outraged if the government decided to manage and would say they should be eradicating.

 

Or if National was in government and they chose to eradicate they would support the decision.

 

 

If that was an attempt to dig at me, you couldn't be more wrong. I'd have opposed it even if National were proposing it. Listening to the discussions on National Radio, there is evidence that a short-term attempt to manage wouldn't significantly increase the issue if it failed. Now they are talking about potentially killing 150,000 cows. 

 

Whilst I should know better than to reply to your jibes, I am going to tell you that I entirely disagreed with Nationals decision to rebuild Christchurch in its identical place, when the prevailing advice was to move it slightly. I disagreed with asset sales. I feel National made a number of major mistakes with CHCH, though it was an enormous task and bound to have problems no matter what happened and I think we have learned a massive amount as a country and as a result of the mistakes that were made. 

 

 


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  #2024446 29-May-2018 09:39
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There are a few factors in favour of trying to control

 

There's no land border - we're on an island.

 

Dairy is a huge part of our economy - more so than anywhere else - we're incentivised to try hard.

 

We can hopefully learn from past (failed) attempts at control elsewhere.

 

It can infect non bovine species (deer, goats) for which there are feral populations - but that seems unlikely to happen, cross-species infection seems to be rare, we don't have feral cattle/bison etc.

 

I agree with Bridges' comment: "they should still try for that with some off-ramps if they find that actually it's not working". 

 

 


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  #2024471 29-May-2018 09:56
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Fred99:

 

There are a few factors in favour of trying to control

 

There's no land border - we're on an island.

 

Dairy is a huge part of our economy - more so than anywhere else - we're incentivised to try hard.

 

We can hopefully learn from past (failed) attempts at control elsewhere.

 

It can infect non bovine species (deer, goats) for which there are feral populations - but that seems unlikely to happen, cross-species infection seems to be rare, we don't have feral cattle/bison etc.

 

I agree with Bridges' comment: "they should still try for that with some off-ramps if they find that actually it's not working". 

 

 

 

 

Right. That's what I was suggesting as well. 


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Uber Geek


  #2024705 29-May-2018 12:44
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Fred99:

 

So not in the section [?Part?] "Crimes Against the Person" at all.

 

But merely to define that if you perform surgery, then you're not going to be punished for - say cutting someone.

 

I'm struggling to see why you brought that up.

 

Abortion should be removed from section [?Part?] 8 of the Crimes Act.

 

 

I never said surgery was explicitly in Part 8, just that it was in the act.

 

But, in the absence of s61, surgery involving cutting or general anaesthetic could be an offence against Part 8.  I see a partial analogy there

 

My point is that something being regulated by the crimes act isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

What if I turn the question around: Do you think a person performing unlicensed and potentially unsafe (for the woman) abortions should be covered by Part 8 of the Crimes act? 

 

 





Mike

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Uber Geek


  #2024779 29-May-2018 13:38
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MikeAqua:

 

What if I turn the question around: Do you think a person performing unlicensed and potentially unsafe (for the woman) abortions should be covered by Part 8 of the Crimes act? 

 

 

 

 

Well I'd just turn it around again to say that if abortion laws were fair and just, then the possibility of unlicensed and potentially unsafe (aka "backstreet") abortions being carried out would be eliminated anyway - and there's no need for specific legislation covering harm by carrying out unsafe abortion compared to carrying out any other medical procedure which could result in harm if carried out by unqualified idiots.

 

There is a problem with the NZ law the way it is.  Doctors are routinely interpreting the law re preserving the mental health of the woman to determine that an abortion is warranted, and that potentially places doctors in a difficult legal position.  We do have de-facto abortion on demand and should stop pretending that we don't - in order to keep a few religious zealots - mainly men - happy.

 

 


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  #2024809 29-May-2018 13:48
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Fred99:

 

MikeAqua:

 

What if I turn the question around: Do you think a person performing unlicensed and potentially unsafe (for the woman) abortions should be covered by Part 8 of the Crimes act? 

 

 

 

 

Well I'd just turn it around again to say that if abortion laws were fair and just, then the possibility of unlicensed and potentially unsafe (aka "backstreet") abortions being carried out would be eliminated anyway - and there's no need for specific legislation covering harm by carrying out unsafe abortion compared to carrying out any other medical procedure which could result in harm if carried out by unqualified idiots.

 

There is a problem with the NZ law the way it is.  Doctors are routinely interpreting the law re preserving the mental health of the woman to determine that an abortion is warranted, and that potentially places doctors in a difficult legal position.  We do have de-facto abortion on demand and should stop pretending that we don't - in order to keep a few religious zealots - mainly men - happy.

 

 

 

 

Fair and just for who? its Obviously not the baby you talking about here right?


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  #2024813 29-May-2018 13:54
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This is a quite complex issue. Easy to get emotional. For me it's a difficult balance between womens right to choose and protecting the innocent. I don't think you be to be a male, or a "religious zealot" to feel this way. 

 

I definitely don't support the use of abortions as birth control and before people jump all over me, I have seen this a fair bit in my youth with girls doing the exact thing. I am not certain I am completely in one camp or the other. It's certainly not an election issue for me. 

 

 


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  #2024814 29-May-2018 13:54
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Wiggum:

 

Fred99:

 

MikeAqua:

 

What if I turn the question around: Do you think a person performing unlicensed and potentially unsafe (for the woman) abortions should be covered by Part 8 of the Crimes act? 

 

 

 

 

Well I'd just turn it around again to say that if abortion laws were fair and just, then the possibility of unlicensed and potentially unsafe (aka "backstreet") abortions being carried out would be eliminated anyway - and there's no need for specific legislation covering harm by carrying out unsafe abortion compared to carrying out any other medical procedure which could result in harm if carried out by unqualified idiots.

 

There is a problem with the NZ law the way it is.  Doctors are routinely interpreting the law re preserving the mental health of the woman to determine that an abortion is warranted, and that potentially places doctors in a difficult legal position.  We do have de-facto abortion on demand and should stop pretending that we don't - in order to keep a few religious zealots - mainly men - happy.

 

 

 

 

Fair and just for who? its Obviously not the baby you talking about here right?

 

 

That should be "it's" and "Obviously" doesn't require capitalisation, obviously!

 

I'm not going to have the conversation you want me to have here.  Troll elsewhere - I promise not to join in.


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