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517 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  #2036516 14-Jun-2018 13:31
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MikeAqua:

Some interesting observations from the last 24 hours: -


Greens campaigned on a crackdown on water bottlers. A Greens minister just approved (an an inward foreign investment) a large water bottling plant.


Labour (including Davis) vocally opposed double-bunking prison cells, criticised National for that policy.  Labour  (Davis) just approved a new prison extension that feature double bunked cells.


 


 



Every government, labour or national, right or left, can be rightly accused of telling lies, or failing to implement election promises etc. But never has there been a government who has so blatantly acted against or backtracked on their own election promises as this one.

This water bottling issue is just another nail in the coffin. As is the double bunking. I struggle to see how there is any support for them given their disregard for the voters who out them in parliament.

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  #2036518 14-Jun-2018 13:33
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rjt123:
MikeAqua:

 

Some interesting observations from the last 24 hours: -

 

 

 

Greens campaigned on a crackdown on water bottlers. A Greens minister just approved (an an inward foreign investment) a large water bottling plant.

 

 

 

Labour (including Davis) vocally opposed double-bunking prison cells, criticised National for that policy.  Labour  (Davis) just approved a new prison extension that feature double bunked cells.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Every government, labour or national, right or left, can be rightly accused of telling lies, or failing to implement election promises etc. But never has there been a government who has so blatantly acted against or backtracked on their own election promises as this one.

This water bottling issue is just another nail in the coffin. As is the double bunking. I struggle to see how there is any support for them given their disregard for the voters who out them in parliament.

 

I am honestly *shocked* at how their polling is not in the toilet. Shocked and worried.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  #2036526 14-Jun-2018 13:45
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networkn:

rjt123:
MikeAqua:


Some interesting observations from the last 24 hours: -


 


Greens campaigned on a crackdown on water bottlers. A Greens minister just approved (an an inward foreign investment) a large water bottling plant.


 


Labour (including Davis) vocally opposed double-bunking prison cells, criticised National for that policy.  Labour  (Davis) just approved a new prison extension that feature double bunked cells.


 


 


 


 




Every government, labour or national, right or left, can be rightly accused of telling lies, or failing to implement election promises etc. But never has there been a government who has so blatantly acted against or backtracked on their own election promises as this one.

This water bottling issue is just another nail in the coffin. As is the double bunking. I struggle to see how there is any support for them given their disregard for the voters who out them in parliament.


I am honestly *shocked* at how their polling is not in the toilet. Shocked and worried.


 



Likewise tbh. Not just because it's labour, but that the public don't seem to care. It puts a premium on dishonesty and discounts integrity, a dangerous direction to be heading.

Might sound alarmist, but it's reality.

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  #2036554 14-Jun-2018 14:55
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networkn:

A very smart strategist I met a few years ago said that the next world war, will be fought not over oil, but over water. I think we should be keeping ours here. Problem is, if China wants it, they could come and get it by force and it's more than a little likely no-one could or would stop them.



When I told my late father that we would be remaining here, his response was something like "Well, you could do worse. Whatever happens, at least you'll have water and food."





gzt

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  #2036557 14-Jun-2018 15:07
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networkn:

A very smart strategist I met a few years ago said that the next world war, will be fought not over oil, but over water. I think we should be keeping ours here. Problem is, if China wants it, they could come and get it by force and it's more than a little likely no-one could or would stop them.


China invading to get more bottled water does not seem likely. If they had severe problems they would invest in seawater desalination long before that. Also list of counties that China has invaded is very very very small.

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  #2036558 14-Jun-2018 15:09
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gzt:
networkn:

 

A very smart strategist I met a few years ago said that the next world war, will be fought not over oil, but over water. I think we should be keeping ours here. Problem is, if China wants it, they could come and get it by force and it's more than a little likely no-one could or would stop them.

 


China invading to get more bottled water does not seem likely. If they had severe problems they would invest in seawater desalination long before that. Also list of counties that China has invaded is very very very small.

 

Bottled water? No, access to lakes etc.. Maybe.

 

Very very small, until they ran out of food.

 

What would you do to keep eating?


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  #2036559 14-Jun-2018 15:11
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Some say the next WW will not be fought with weapons but rather money. 

 

There is some sign of it already. This guy thought it was entirely possible that a scenario like "China minipulates NZ into a very grim financial situation and then comes along to bail them out on some form of ownership arrangment". 

 

Basically a land grab of a different type. If that doesn't work or doesn't eventuate, then forcible occupation. 

 

It is somewhat unlikely that unless the USA could see some strong strategic reason to prevent this.


 
 
 
 


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  #2036560 14-Jun-2018 15:11
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12070719

 

God, she is weak! He holds a position of power, she is part of that. You can't just say "this is my personal opinion" and expect it not to have political ramifications.

 

 

 

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  #2036564 14-Jun-2018 15:18
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Besides I don't think he made it very clear that it was his personal opinion and not the government's.

He was using his profile as a minister to promote his personal views. In one sense the two are inseparable and his views become the government's views.

gzt

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  #2036566 14-Jun-2018 15:18
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networkn:

Some say the next WW will not be fought with weapons but rather money. 


There is some sign of it already. This guy thought it was entirely possible that a scenario like "China minipulates NZ into a very grim financial situation and then comes along to bail them out on some form of ownership arrangment". 


Basically a land grab of a different type. If that doesn't work or doesn't eventuate, then forcible occupation. 


It is somewhat unlikely that unless the USA could see some strong strategic reason to prevent this.


This is something the IMF and the USA have been accused of for many years. China's economy will obviously overtake the USA's at some point. But yeah if a Chinese company offered to double the water price our local extractors would be banging on our govts door to sell more..

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  #2036569 14-Jun-2018 15:37
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networkn:

 

A very smart strategist I met a few years ago said that the next world war, will be fought not over oil, but over water. I think we should be keeping ours here. Problem is, if China wants it, they could come and get it by force and it's more than a little likely no-one could or would stop them.

 

 

That makes almost no sense.  War is expensive and energy intensive.  It's the most expensive and risky way to get water from earth.  Even de-salination would be cheaper. 

 

Lots of ways NZ could sell freshwater to the world cheaply, with minimal impacts, if things got that dire.





Mike

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  #2036587 14-Jun-2018 16:03
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Some of the comments being made here are really quite immature in my opinion especially the ones about China Don't be ridiculous.  Shane Jones might not be everyone's  cup of tea but he does have a lot of support from many.  The fact that political parties change their minds on policies after they have been is not new. in my opinion I am surprised at how you strong supporters of the last Govt are not up in arms over the cattle virus and The Meth fraud. I am now glad I voted for change even though I had my doubts. The review committees that have been set may be many and costly but they have some very intelligent people in those groups. I doubt that if National get back they wont change many of the policies that possibly could be set in place.  I actually wonder what you would be commenting on if Winstone had gone with National.  I still don't really understand all the hate and derogatory comments some of you display. If you don't like this country suggesting that we are going down the road of division Is quite dramatic Suggesting we could be taken over by others ridiculous. In  times of great need we all stick together, as we have done previously I dont see that need today or in the future. Note How the Federated Farmers and NZ Dairy have got to work with this Govt in an attempt to solve this problem. This is a PROBLEM THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH IMMEDIATELY WHEN IT WAS DISCOVERED. Why no outcry over this?? The 2 of these problems are going to cost around a billion dollars

 

So far I have listened to Simon Bridges I have no confidence in him this far. National will need to do better than this after there many failures over the last period of time Even the farming community appear to be split on the Shane Jones comments about Fonterra.  He is saying what many have felt for a while just as they are on the handling of the Virus Go and talk to some of them.  Lets cut out the Drama Queen nonsense and the derogatory remarks I wonder if you came  face to face with some of these Political people who are representing us whether you would have the guts to say some of the things you do in this forum. But remember I have low standards and probably have no right to comment.


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Ultimate Geek
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  #2036589 14-Jun-2018 16:06
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MikeAqua:

networkn:


A very smart strategist I met a few years ago said that the next world war, will be fought not over oil, but over water. I think we should be keeping ours here. Problem is, if China wants it, they could come and get it by force and it's more than a little likely no-one could or would stop them.



That makes almost no sense.  War is expensive and energy intensive.  It's the most expensive and risky way to get water from earth.  Even de-salination would be cheaper. 


Lots of ways NZ could sell freshwater to the world cheaply, with minimal impacts, if things got that dire.



Besides we live in an incredibly benign strategic environment. Why should we have a war? 😂

I'm not wanting a war but it's pretty easy to see that nothing's really changed in the last few thousand years, there's always going to be conflicts. Even NZ is determined to maintain their 'influence' in the Pacific. What are they protecting it from?

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  #2037636 14-Jun-2018 17:10
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gulfa:

 

Some of the comments being made here are really quite immature in my opinion especially the ones about China Don't be ridiculous.  Shane Jones might not be everyone's  cup of tea but he does have a lot of support from many.  The fact that political parties change their minds on policies after they have been is not new. in my opinion I am surprised at how you strong supporters of the last Govt are not up in arms over the cattle virus and The Meth fraud. I am now glad I voted for change even though I had my doubts. The review committees that have been set may be many and costly but they have some very intelligent people in those groups. I doubt that if National get back they wont change many of the policies that possibly could be set in place.  I actually wonder what you would be commenting on if Winstone had gone with National.  I still don't really understand all the hate and derogatory comments some of you display. If you don't like this country suggesting that we are going down the road of division Is quite dramatic Suggesting we could be taken over by others ridiculous. In  times of great need we all stick together, as we have done previously I dont see that need today or in the future. Note How the Federated Farmers and NZ Dairy have got to work with this Govt in an attempt to solve this problem. This is a PROBLEM THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEALT WITH IMMEDIATELY WHEN IT WAS DISCOVERED. Why no outcry over this?? The 2 of these problems are going to cost around a billion dollars

 

So far I have listened to Simon Bridges I have no confidence in him this far. National will need to do better than this after there many failures over the last period of time Even the farming community appear to be split on the Shane Jones comments about Fonterra.  He is saying what many have felt for a while just as they are on the handling of the Virus Go and talk to some of them.  Lets cut out the Drama Queen nonsense and the derogatory remarks I wonder if you came  face to face with some of these Political people who are representing us whether you would have the guts to say some of the things you do in this forum. But remember I have low standards and probably have no right to comment.

 

 

You need to learn how to use paragraphs and punctuation, what you write is often impossible to read coherently.

 

You know, Trump has supporters too. Doesn't make him right, or them either. He and they might be, but just because someone has someone willing to vote for them, doesn't mean anything. 

 

I don't believe for a second you would give Simon Bridges a fair shot any more than you think I gave Jacinda one. 

 

For your information, had National of done some of the bone headed policies that Labour have made, I would be mad as a hatter.

 

 

 

 


gzt

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  #2037891 14-Jun-2018 21:43
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networkn:

gzt:
networkn:


A very smart strategist I met a few years ago said that the next world war, will be fought not over oil, but over water. I think we should be keeping ours here. Problem is, if China wants it, they could come and get it by force and it's more than a little likely no-one could or would stop them.



China invading to get more bottled water does not seem likely. If they had severe problems they would invest in seawater desalination long before that. Also list of counties that China has invaded is very very very small.


Bottled water? No, access to lakes etc.. Maybe.


Very very small, until they ran out of food.


What would you do to keep eating?


Seriously China population growth was 0.5% in 2016. Zero point five percent. Further on China population is expected to start trending -negative- around 2030. This is also something that tends to happen for all mature industrial economies.

But for the sake of argument assuming some kind of fantasy agricultural disaster um.. maybe stop exporting tons and tons and tons of food to New Zealand? ;. ).


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