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517 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 2076292 20-Aug-2018 15:26
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tdgeek:

Percieved isn't lining up with the stats.


It was for effect as I stated economists, you include Labour.


If you want a party that solely looks after businesses thats fine, vote National. If they had not annually underfunded core functions and turned that into an artificial rockstar economy that now has to be faced with the costs that they chose to forego, then I would have continued to vote for them. Conservatism is better then liberalism, but no lies thanks. There is no housing crisis still bangs away on my head, BE in the third debate. We can all have a rockstar economy or bank balance, but you cant run away from underfunding. 1 year after 9 to fix that? off course not.


Perhaps a 5 year wage freeze and reduction in leave might be an option?? We all live here. There needs to be a balance, and the last 9 years was not balanced. Will these 3 years be balanced? No idea. We will see, although this thread wont as its just a bashing thread. What will happen is the next National Govt won't be run by the old school. And on that I hope Bridges works to be part of that. He is going downhill which is a pity



That you imply labour genuinely wants higher wages rather than equal wages would resonate better with me if they had budgeted for wage rises for teachers and nurses instead of legislating to accommodate strikes and then wondering why people are demanding higher wages and striking to get them. I agree that there should have been an increase under national, that is a genuine failing on their behalf.

But like the 'business confidence' thing is largely just in the mind, so is the housing crisis. But it played into labour's hand to talk it up, so talk it up they did, and now the nation believes it. Also, alot of the underfunding perception is based on mind-games by labour. And fake news. Remember a few months back whit the middle more hospital crisis? 'terrible underfunding by national leaves hospital infrastructure in dis-repair' was the storyline until the truth came out.

Also, one must bear in mind that both nurses and teachers are subsisting in a heavily unionized industry and that largely is to blame for low wages. Until they accept that unions don't deliver good wages in the long term then they cannot literally expect to be paid as well as they should be.

774 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 2076375 20-Aug-2018 16:58
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rjt123:
That you imply labour genuinely wants higher wages rather than equal wages would resonate better with me if they had budgeted for wage rises for teachers and nurses instead of legislating to accommodate strikes and then wondering why people are demanding higher wages and striking to get them. I agree that there should have been an increase under national, that is a genuine failing on their behalf.

 

Interesting that you've bought into that narrative.   Take a moment to review the data:  (source: Ministry of Education)

 

 

Over the past 10 years, teacher remuneration has grown more quickly than salary and wage rates for the workforce as a whole. Since 2007 average secondary teacher remuneration has increased by 27.4 per cent to $79,500 and average primary teacher remuneration has increased by 30.6 per cent to $72,900. Over the same period the labour cost index, which tracks changes in salary and wage rates, has increased by 22.4 per cent. Over the same 10 year period inflation has increased by 21.4 per cent.

 

 

That doesn't sound like a "genuine failing" to me.  It sounds like the Teachers were actually looked after better under National than the rest of the workforce.


 
 
 
 


21440 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2076379 20-Aug-2018 17:01
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Some people just want to believe that National neglected and everything. :) 

 

Is that 80K pro rated, or is that 80K plus the school holidays as well?

 

 


8813 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2076513 20-Aug-2018 21:22
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6FIEND:

 

That doesn't sound like a "genuine failing" to me.  It sounds like the Teachers were actually looked after better under National than the rest of the workforce.

 

 

What you're really saying is that the rest of the workforce was looked after even worse than teachers.

 

 


8813 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2076517 20-Aug-2018 21:33
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rjt123:

But like the 'business confidence' thing is largely just in the mind, so is the housing crisis. But it played into labour's hand to talk it up, so talk it up they did, and now the nation believes it.

 

Oh no!  That's just really not true!

 

There was a freaking housing crisis at the start of the last National govt term - even Key was bleating that having the average Akl house price at 6x median household income was nuts, then at the end his term it was about 10x.  Genius.

 

 


8813 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2076518 20-Aug-2018 21:36
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MikeAqua:

 

Businesses are correct to have less confidence under a labour led government. 

 

 

Actually, if you go back over many decades of economic data, GDP growth etc, that "common knowledge" is relegated to the basket of partisan BS where most of this circle-jerk thread belongs.


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Uber Geek


  # 2076521 20-Aug-2018 21:44
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networkn:

 

Well, by now no-one should be surprised by the fact that everything Labour "fixes" will have an associated Tax. 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/106268761/superregions-or-a-special-tax--how-the-government-plans-to-fix-new-zealands-broken-water-systems

 

 

Believe me I also despise that "tax by stealth" - but it's hardly a partisan concept.

 

FWIW, despite the pessimism and doomsaying in this circle-jerk thread, can you name another country with as low income tax top marginal rate as NZ, that somehow still manages to provide universal healthcare, universal non-means tested pensions, universal unemployment benefit, accommodation supplements, something akin to "WFF" in terms of welfare to the middle class, free or heavily subsidised education, without running massive deficits.

 

There's no free lunch.


 
 
 
 


8813 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2076522 20-Aug-2018 21:49
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Oh - and bye.  I'll pop back in here some other time - to see how the GZ "JDS" (Jacinda Derangement Syndrome) folks are going.  If something urgent and really important crops up, PM me.


517 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 2076528 20-Aug-2018 21:58
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Fred99:

rjt123:

But like the 'business confidence' thing is largely just in the mind, so is the housing crisis. But it played into labour's hand to talk it up, so talk it up they did, and now the nation believes it.


Oh no!  That's just really not true!


There was a freaking housing crisis at the start of the last National govt term - even Key was bleating that having the average Akl house price at 6x median household income was nuts, then at the end his term it was about 10x.  Genius.


 



Ahhh... So there's a problem in Auckland? Well what's new, there's always been problems in Auckland. There's problems where I come from too, but nobody calls them a crisis, and nobody expects the government to step in to fix them. It's about time Auckland realised that they aren't NZ as a whole. Their crisis's are their own, not mine.

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  # 2076630 21-Aug-2018 10:15
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Fred99:

 

Oh - and bye.  I'll pop back in here some other time - to see how the GZ "JDS" (Jacinda Derangement Syndrome) folks are going.  If something urgent and really important crops up, PM me.

 

 

You being the epitome of reason right? Pfft. You are the President of the TDS (Trump Derangement Sydrome) sufferers and then come in here acting all high and mighty because others in this thread are upset that Labour has kept next to none of it's promises, least of all the one to transparent and honest. Your defense of this seems to be that others have done it in the past. 

 

Don't hurry back on our account. 

 

 


517 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 2076634 21-Aug-2018 10:28
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networkn:

Fred99:


Oh - and bye.  I'll pop back in here some other time - to see how the GZ "JDS" (Jacinda Derangement Syndrome) folks are going.  If something urgent and really important crops up, PM me.



You being the epitome of reason right? Pfft. You are the President of the TDS (Trump Derangement Sydrome) sufferers and then come in here acting all high and mighty because others in this thread are upset that Labour has kept next to none of it's promises, least of all the one to transparent and honest. Your defense of this seems to be that others have done it in the past. 


Don't hurry back on our account. 


 



Just another similarity between Trump and Jacinda... Both apparently have a derangement syndrome.

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  # 2076683 21-Aug-2018 12:13
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rjt123:
networkn:

 

Fred99:

 

 

 

Oh - and bye.  I'll pop back in here some other time - to see how the GZ "JDS" (Jacinda Derangement Syndrome) folks are going.  If something urgent and really important crops up, PM me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You being the epitome of reason right? Pfft. You are the President of the TDS (Trump Derangement Sydrome) sufferers and then come in here acting all high and mighty because others in this thread are upset that Labour has kept next to none of it's promises, least of all the one to transparent and honest. Your defense of this seems to be that others have done it in the past. 

 

 

 

Don't hurry back on our account. 

 

 

 

 

 



Just another similarity between Trump and Jacinda... Both apparently have a derangement syndrome.

 

Good grief!!!!!!! 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 2076684 21-Aug-2018 12:14
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rjt123:

Just another similarity between Trump and Jacinda... Both apparently have a derangement syndrome.

 

To be fair I don't think Jacinda is deranged. I think she is *massively* out of her depth. I don't even doubt she is a nice person, and wants the best for New Zealand. I just think she was naive and over promised based on her ideals rather than the reality of running a country and balancing the requirements of many different groups of people.

 

I maintain she would have been a better leader for NZ if she had spent 1 term as leader of the opposition, fleshed out their plans and delivered a less fairy tale unable to be delivered on set of promises.

 

I also get the feeling she doesn't really have the respect of the majority of her caucus.

 

Obama had a similar issue with his campaign promises. He promised to close gitmo but once he had access to the "other" information, the stuff that actually matters, he was forced to reneg, because as he himself said, it would not have been safe to close Gitmo.

 

 

 

 


517 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 2076689 21-Aug-2018 12:21
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MikeB4:

rjt123:
networkn:


Fred99:


 


Oh - and bye.  I'll pop back in here some other time - to see how the GZ "JDS" (Jacinda Derangement Syndrome) folks are going.  If something urgent and really important crops up, PM me.


 



 


You being the epitome of reason right? Pfft. You are the President of the TDS (Trump Derangement Sydrome) sufferers and then come in here acting all high and mighty because others in this thread are upset that Labour has kept next to none of it's promises, least of all the one to transparent and honest. Your defense of this seems to be that others have done it in the past. 


 


Don't hurry back on our account. 


 


 




Just another similarity between Trump and Jacinda... Both apparently have a derangement syndrome.


Good grief!!!!!!! 



I would never had attributed quite such an affliction to her, but seeing as one of her ardent supporters seemed to think there was such a thing I supposed it was real. Presumably that post implied there was others suffering alongside Jacinda with the same problem as her. I thought it was a bit low, but seeing as Fred99 saw fit to diagnose her with it I took the liberty of carrying on the narrative.

Though methinks he would be better to stick to the facts rather than slipping snide remarks in and then complaining about the 'tone' of this thread. 😁

517 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 2076698 21-Aug-2018 12:26
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networkn:

rjt123:

Just another similarity between Trump and Jacinda... Both apparently have a derangement syndrome.


To be fair I don't think Jacinda is deranged. I think she is *massively* out of her depth. I don't even doubt she is a nice person, and wants the best for New Zealand. I just think she was naive and over promised based on her ideals rather than the reality of running a country and balancing the requirements of many different groups of people.


I maintain she would have been a better leader for NZ if she had spent 1 term as leader of the opposition, fleshed out their plans and delivered a less fairy tale unable to be delivered on set of promises.


I also get the feeling she doesn't really have the respect of the majority of her caucus.


Obama had a similar issue with his campaign promises. He promised to close gitmo but once he had access to the "other" information, the stuff that actually matters, he was forced to reneg, because as he himself said, it would not have been safe to close Gitmo.


 


 



I agree entirely. As a person she is fine, though I don't agree with many of her ideals.

Just if certain members feel free to turn this thread into a sh*t-stirring forum then I'll join the fun. And there's no better way to do that than by drawing a parallel between her and Trump.

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