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  #1958362 14-Feb-2018 22:57
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Am I alone in finding such remuneration as has been mentioned in this thread to be obscene?

 

Isn't it strange that the people who receive this disproportionate remuneration are the same people who say their organisations can't afford to pay a true living wage to those on the ground level?

 

Shame on them I say.


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  #1958365 14-Feb-2018 23:37
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mm1352000:

 

Am I alone in finding such remuneration as has been mentioned in this thread to be obscene?

 

Isn't it strange that the people who receive this disproportionate remuneration are the same people who say their organisations can't afford to pay a true living wage to those on the ground level?

 

Shame on them I say.

 

 

 

 

What's obscene about it? If people have the skills and smarts to get to those positions, as well as the dedication and drive, then all strength to their arm.






 
 
 
 


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  #1958375 15-Feb-2018 05:05
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mm1352000:

 

Am I alone in finding such remuneration as has been mentioned in this thread to be obscene?

 

Isn't it strange that the people who receive this disproportionate remuneration are the same people who say their organisations can't afford to pay a true living wage to those on the ground level?

 

Shame on them I say.

 

 

Clearly you have little knowledge of pay for execs in private sector??


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  #1958403 15-Feb-2018 08:07
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Geektastic: What's obscene about it?

 

How disproportionate it is to the remuneration for the people at the bottom of the organisation.

 

Also, putting on my socialist hat, it seems completely inequitable when you consider the plight of those at the bottom of our society and the world.

 

Geektastic: If people have the skills and smarts to get to those positions, as well as the dedication and drive, then all strength to their arm.

 

Sure, all of the things you mentioned are good and desirable... but the point I'm trying to make is that their remuneration is out of proportion and context. In other words, I don't think a CEO who is paid 10+ times the average wage is proportionally more skilled etc.


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  #1958406 15-Feb-2018 08:11
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Pumpedd: Clearly you have little knowledge of pay for execs in private sector??

 

I'm not stupid.


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  #1958416 15-Feb-2018 08:30
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mm1352000:

Geektastic: What's obscene about it?


How disproportionate it is to the remuneration for the people at the bottom of the organisation.


Also, putting on my socialist hat, it seems completely inequitable when you consider the plight of those at the bottom of our society and the world.


Geektastic: If people have the skills and smarts to get to those positions, as well as the dedication and drive, then all strength to their arm.


Sure, all of the things you mentioned are good and desirable... but the point I'm trying to make is that their remuneration is out of proportion and context. In other words, I don't think a CEO who is paid 10+ times the average wage is proportionally more skilled etc.



When the average worker on the average wage has the same, managerial, commercial and legal responsibility of a CEO then your argument may have some validity




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  #1958427 15-Feb-2018 09:14
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I don't buy the argument that people who are paid millions actually add millions worth of value to their companies. This is an old argument to justify extreme salaries and I think it is BS. I don't question that competent executives (note the emphasis) add genuine value that warrants higher remuneration, but not to the ridiculous levels that sometimes occur. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  #1958431 15-Feb-2018 09:19
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Rikkitic:

I don't buy the argument that people who are paid millions actually add millions worth of value to their companies. This is an old argument to justify extreme salaries and I think it is BS. I don't question that competent executives (note the emphasis) add genuine value that warrants higher remuneration, but not to the ridiculous levels that sometimes occur. 


 



On this you are wrong, look at the corporate history of GM, IBM, Microsoft, Nokia and Apple and you will clearly see the value or lack if value the CEO brings.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  #1958434 15-Feb-2018 09:23
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Rikkitic:

 

I don't buy the argument that people who are paid millions actually add millions worth of value to their companies. This is an old argument to justify extreme salaries and I think it is BS. I don't question that competent executives (note the emphasis) add genuine value that warrants higher remuneration, but not to the ridiculous levels that sometimes occur. 

 

 

Perhaps we could turn that argument around and re-frame it as a question. 

 

"If a new CEO is appointed to Acme Corp. and over a period of 5 years oversees a doubling of Acme's net profit - how much of that value add would it be reasonable to remunerate the CEO with?"

 

Half?

 

10%?

 

1%?


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  #1958436 15-Feb-2018 09:24
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MikeB4: When the average worker on the average wage has the same, managerial, commercial and legal responsibility of a CEO then your argument may have some validity

 

Of course the average worker is never going to have "the same" responsibility, especially in those domains. My point was put in terms of proportionality and equity, not equality. Therefore I ask: are you saying that - in so far as the roles of the average worker and CEO can be compared - you think CEO wages are proportional and equitable when compared to the average wage? If so, we will not come to an agreement on that point.

 

In relation to your reference to responsibility: if management pay is intended to reflect their responsibility, do you have any thoughts about management who are happy to accept the remuneration but, when things go wrong, shirk on the responsibilities? Pike River et. al. As far as I'm concerned that's typical of management these days, and it sickens me.


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  #1958438 15-Feb-2018 09:27
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re the arguement : you need to pay more to attarct those with the required skills

 

Time & time again in NZ we have those on incredibly high salary being incompetent, failing  or only there to milk the system for all they can get out of it, with the public then saying how could anyone be so stupid ?

 

Surely there should be someone else within the company/govt dept with the skills to take over the top job?
If not, why not ? Why arnt management grooming others to be able to rise to the very top.

 

And why are bonuses being paid out when targets arnt met. Why are bonuses paid regardless of actual performance ?


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  #1958439 15-Feb-2018 09:27
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6FIEND: Perhaps we could turn that argument around and re-frame it as a question.

 

I agree with Rikkitic.

 

My response to you would be that I reject the underlying premise of your question, which is that the CEO is at some level responsible for the increase in profit. That's an assumption that I don't jump into.

 

 


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  #1958448 15-Feb-2018 09:40
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mm1352000:

MikeB4: When the average worker on the average wage has the same, managerial, commercial and legal responsibility of a CEO then your argument may have some validity


Of course the average worker is never going to have "the same" responsibility, especially in those domains. My point was put in terms of proportionality and equity, not equality. Therefore I ask: are you saying that - in so far as the roles of the average worker and CEO can be compared - you think CEO wages are proportional and equitable when compared to the average wage? If so, we will not come to an agreement on that point.


In relation to your reference to responsibility: if management pay is intended to reflect their responsibility, do you have any thoughts about management who are happy to accept the remuneration but, when things go wrong, shirk on the responsibilities? Pike River et. al. As far as I'm concerned that's typical of management these days, and it sickens me.



Does the average worker have huge legal responsibility for finance, health and safety, corporate responsibility, fedelity etc etc.The legal responsibility if the CEO are real and huge way beyond that of the average.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  #1958453 15-Feb-2018 09:48
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MikeB4:

Does the average worker have huge legal responsibility for finance, health and safety, corporate responsibility, fedelity etc etc.The legal responsibility if the CEO are real and huge way beyond that of the average.

 

Pike River.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #1958455 15-Feb-2018 09:49
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MikeB4: Does the average worker have huge legal responsibility for finance, health and safety, corporate responsibility, fedelity etc etc.The legal responsibility if the CEO are real and huge way beyond that of the average.

 

I feel like you keep missing my point. I'm not arguing that CEOs shouldn't be paid more than an average worker. I'm arguing that their pay should be in proportion to the average worker, and socially equitable. The fact that some CEOs have significant responsibilities that average workers do not does not, in my opinion, justify disproportionate pay.


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