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8790 posts

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  # 1980610 20-Mar-2018 17:05
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MikeAqua:

 

Fred99:

 

This expose will hopefully take them down, but what's more important perhaps is to stop some other similar organisation from popping up to take their place.

 

 

If there is a niche someone will fill it.

 

 

Not if the last person to fill it got publicly shamed and put in prison - as I certainly hope they do with the thoroughly evil criminals from CA.




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  # 1980611 20-Mar-2018 17:09
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MikeB4:

 

Rikkitic:

 

People applaud Trump and Putin while they are sticking it up their bums. I'm not sure we deserve democracy any longer. I find all of this profoundly depressing. I don't know if our government is any good or not, but at least it isn't like that. Once again, I am extremely grateful to be privileged to live in New Zealand. We may well end up as the last bastion of democracy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Democracy is a myth, a will o the wisp "ignis fatuus" there but not there, foolish in its action. Empty in its substance.

 

 

Yes Mike - except it beats the alternative, and millions of people sacrificed their lives, your relatives no doubt and mine, to defend democracy.

 

Cambridge Analytica have fascist leanings - and I'm not saying that lightly.  


 
 
 
 




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  # 1980667 20-Mar-2018 19:08
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Unfortunately, the UK agencies can't pounce - they need a warrant.  FFS.

 

Cambridge Analytica no doubt desperately deleting data and wiping servers right now:

 


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  # 1980669 20-Mar-2018 19:11
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People DO take notice of social media....thats all a lot do. And I mean a lot of people.




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  # 1980673 20-Mar-2018 19:23
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Pumpedd:

 

People DO take notice of social media....thats all a lot do. And I mean a lot of people.

 

 

Oh I agree totally.

 

Worse is that I don't think many "self aware" people really "get" how sophisticated the data mining is, and how incredibly subtle the (paid for) messaging will be.  As the guy from Cambridge Analytica said - if you suspect it's propaganda, they've failed in their mission. Subtle is doing things like knowing who your facebook friends are, knowing what their political leanings are, and tweaking how their posts appear on your timeline to suit an agenda you're not even aware exists. Not necessarily blatant ads shoved in your face at all. Not saying that CA had access to FB to allow psych manipulation at that level - but I'm certain Zuckerberg does it.

 

 


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  # 1980674 20-Mar-2018 19:33
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Pumpedd:

 

People DO take notice of social media....thats all a lot do. And I mean a lot of people.

 

 

I agree. But similarly earlier generations took notice of TV advertisements and News Media advertising for the past 30 years. The only thing that has changed is that the "advertising" has become more focused whilst being cheaper to achieve.

 

Marketing 101.

 

Depending on which side of the fence you sit on, people will agree or disagree.

 

I understand where Fred99 is coming from, but a lot of us have been saying for years that what we are witnessing now will be the likely outcome due to the intrusion and general acceptance of social media. Sadly many could not see that, or if they saw the potential outcome - were invariably shot down by social media embracing left leaning liberals.

 

I struggle to understand the "faux" shock expressed by some.


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  # 1980704 20-Mar-2018 20:41
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The Guardian


 
 
 
 


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  # 1980713 20-Mar-2018 21:06
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Not so much shock, more utter disgust. Like finding a worm in my apple.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1980716 20-Mar-2018 21:10
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Rikkitic:

 

Not so much shock, more utter disgust. Like finding a worm in my apple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Finding half a worm in an apple is worse tongue-out





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1980733 20-Mar-2018 21:45
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Fred99:

 

Unfortunately, the UK agencies can't pounce - they need a warrant.  FFS.

 

Cambridge Analytica no doubt desperately deleting data and wiping servers right now:

 

 

 

 

 

Yes - can't beat advanced notice.






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  # 1980734 20-Mar-2018 21:47
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DaveB:

 

The Guardian

 

 

 

 

Am I supposed to know this chap? I'm not an habitué of the Grauniad.








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  # 1980793 21-Mar-2018 07:00
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Geektastic:

 

Am I supposed to know this chap? I'm not an habitué of the Grauniad.

 

 

That's an Alexander Nix publicity shot.
Note the slightly foppish "Eton" hair, glasses etc, conservative academic look, geekish - leaning towards nerd. Image is very important.
This is the guy who assured everybody that his thoroughly decent company had never received data from Facebook, then caught lying on that. Now also for offering to arrange to fly in beautiful Ukrainian girls to honey-trap politicians, fly in wealthy property developers to offer bribes, do anything out of the dirty-tricks book to discredit opposition politicians, and boast about how successful his methods to corrupt democracy have been, as part of his sales pitch.

 

DaveB:

 

Pumpedd:

 

People DO take notice of social media....thats all a lot do. And I mean a lot of people.

 

 

I agree. But similarly earlier generations took notice of TV advertisements and News Media advertising for the past 30 years. The only thing that has changed is that the "advertising" has become more focused whilst being cheaper to achieve.

 

Marketing 101.

 

Depending on which side of the fence you sit on, people will agree or disagree.

 

I understand where Fred99 is coming from, but a lot of us have been saying for years that what we are witnessing now will be the likely outcome due to the intrusion and general acceptance of social media. Sadly many could not see that, or if they saw the potential outcome - were invariably shot down by social media embracing left leaning liberals.

 

I struggle to understand the "faux" shock expressed by some.

 

 

I agree that certain techniques are used in marketing, those were discussed in the documentary, inciting fear and playing on it then offering the solution.  This might be a brand of toothpaste lest your breath is offensive to others, or an insurance plan lest you kark prematurely leaving your family destitute. 

 

Marketing 101 students probably learn on day one the saying of a pioneer of marketing: "half the money I spend on advertising is wasted - I don't know which half".  That pretty well held up until recently - though gradually refined by way of opt-in data collection, surveys etc.

 

What CA does is more than just the "advertising" becoming more focused and cheaper;

 

They handle the "whole package", which includes fabrication of facts and entrapment.  The "marketing campaign" is primarily negative - while they offer the solution (vote for B), the main focus is on discrediting the opposition ("A is corrupt/evil, did this or that - doesn't matter if the claims are lies - they just need to be believable - this is what CA said.).  They also know exactly what part of their advertising works and what doesn't - so well refined that they can play psychological manipulation games, targeting individuals, analysing the individual's response, pushing the message that works further - then knowing that through social media, the individuals they're "turned" act as unwitting agents to influence others, passing on a rapidly mutating - through constant targeted genetic modification - pathogenic virus.

 

Lots has changed - and seeing what's going on isn't easy.

 

 




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  # 1980825 21-Mar-2018 08:32
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Geektastic:

 

Fred99:

 

Unfortunately, the UK agencies can't pounce - they need a warrant.  FFS.

 

Cambridge Analytica no doubt desperately deleting data and wiping servers right now:

 

Yes - can't beat advanced notice.

 

 

"Nothing to hide":

 

 

Alexander Nix revealed the company used a secret self-destructing email system that leaves no trace. He said: “No-one knows we have it, and secondly we set our… emails with a self-destruct timer… So you send them and after they’ve been read, two hours later, they disappear. There’s no evidence, there’s no paper trail, there’s nothing.”

 


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  # 1981353 22-Mar-2018 10:10
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Fred99:

 

MikeAqua:

 

You can't trust the media either.  Immediately after a politician is interviewed on either breakfast show, their position is being misrepresented and selectively quoted in the next news section.  A cynic might thing the headlines are written before the interviews.

 

 

One of the messages very heavily pushed by CA is "You can't trust the media either".  Just mentioning that - in case you weren't aware how you formed that opinion, because the second sentence above doesn't actually justify the first.

 

 

I formed that opinion by repeatedly seeing the NZ media interview a politician, and then literally minutes later in a 'news' bulletin on the same show, claim that person took a different position  i.e based on two sequential section of a programme I saw the entirety of live and unedited.

 

Where a media agency is clearly misleading the public, I think that is a justification for not trusting them.  It may not even be deliberate.  The issue could be confirmation bias or a lack of basic comprehension skills.  Incompetence is also a justification for withholding trust.

 

Another trend in media that undermines my confidence is their tendency to characterise complex problems as a simple dichotomy of choices or views.  I'm not sure whether this reflect the limited intellect of the people producing news or the limited intellectual appetite of the audience.  I do think representing a complex issue as dichotomies encourages a polarised and partisan discussion.

 

I'm still prepared to listen to and learn from a person or agency I don't trust, I just put a more sceptical lens on what they say.

 

If you are thinking I gleaned the highlighted phrase from social media - I don't think so.  This is because: - 

 

- My lack of trust in the mainstream media in NZ predates social media. 

 

- I don't use social media - facebook, twitter etc.

 

 

 

 





Mike

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  # 1981372 22-Mar-2018 10:43
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MikeAqua:

 

I formed that opinion by repeatedly seeing the NZ media interview a politician, and then literally minutes later in a 'news' bulletin on the same show, claim that person took a different position  i.e based on two sequential section of a programme I saw the entirety of live and unedited.

 

Where a media agency is clearly misleading the public, I think that is a justification for not trusting them.  It may not even be deliberate.  The issue could be confirmation bias or a lack of basic comprehension skills.  Incompetence is also a justification for withholding trust.

 

Another trend in media that undermines my confidence is their tendency to characterise complex problems as a simple dichotomy of choices or views.  I'm not sure whether this reflect the limited intellect of the people producing news or the limited intellectual appetite of the audience.  I do think representing a complex issue as dichotomies encourages a polarised and partisan discussion.

 

I'm still prepared to listen to and learn from a person or agency I don't trust, I just put a more sceptical lens on what they say.

 

If you are thinking I gleaned the highlighted phrase from social media - I don't think so.  This is because: - 

 

- My lack of trust in the mainstream media in NZ predates social media. 

 

- I don't use social media - facebook, twitter etc.

 

 

Your lack of trust is well-placed. Journalistic standards have plummeted, except at a few holdout quality media outlets. Most of today's journalists are incompetent. They report on things that they do not have even a minimal understanding of. This is not always their fault. They are also under constant pressure to produce their stories. Sub-editing is a forgotten profession. Higher up, the blame lies with the fast food franchise nature of modern journalism, and the constant demand to maximise profits from advertising by producing 'infotainment' crap. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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