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Glurp
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  Reply # 1994149 11-Apr-2018 10:14
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It won't always be illegal. It is only a matter of time. And all of that conservative repression, angst, police resources, persecution, injustice, obsessing over an innocuous plant, will have been for nought. How many hundreds of millions, maybe billions, will have been thrown away over the years in pursuit of this non-existent fantasy evil? How many hospitals (instead of prisons) could have been built for that?

 

 

 

 





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  Reply # 1994154 11-Apr-2018 10:18
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Rikkitic:

 

It won't always be illegal. It is only a matter of time. And all of that conservative repression, angst, police resources, persecution, injustice, obsessing over an innocuous plant, will have been for nought. How many hundreds of millions, maybe billions, will have been thrown away over the years in pursuit of this non-existent fantasy evil? How many hospitals (instead of prisons) could have been built for that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh brother, give me a break.

 

You'll be thrilled that the Greens sold out the Kermadec Sanctuary so they can have a Weed referendum, was their whole point of existing after all. All the hand-wringing over how important the environment and social issues were, all a big smokescreen.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1994175 11-Apr-2018 10:51
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Sour grapes weed.

 

 





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  Reply # 1994182 11-Apr-2018 11:02
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Legalising it may work if they legislate carefully, put resources in to mitigate the inevitable problems and spend sufficient time to weed out issues.





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  Reply # 1994184 11-Apr-2018 11:06
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Rikkitic:

 

Sour grapes weed.

 

 

 

 

Not even close, but disappointing you'd go there. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1994187 11-Apr-2018 11:09
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How did the Greens sell out Kermadec? I thought they were outgunned by NZ First.

 

 





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  Reply # 1994188 11-Apr-2018 11:16
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Rikkitic:

 

How did the Greens sell out Kermadec? I thought they were outgunned by NZ First.

 

 

 

 

You can justify it however much you like. Greens had a balance of the power if they wanted to play that card. Instead of fighting for Kermadec, they fought for a weed referendum. You might not like that reality, but the Greens prioritised Weed over the Kermadec. If you consider that a worth while thing, then that's fine. I do not consider it. I think they betrayed NZ, and their entire purpose for existing, to protect the environment. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1994197 11-Apr-2018 11:27
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We often seem to draw different conclusions from the same facts. Did the Greens actually have an option to defend Kermadic? I thought they were blindsided by the deal between Labour and NZ First. What could they have done about it? Or are you angry because they didn't kill the coalition and let National form the next government?

 

 





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  Reply # 1994206 11-Apr-2018 11:37
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Rikkitic:

 

We often seem to draw different conclusions from the same facts. Did the Greens actually have an option to defend Kermadic? I thought they were blindsided by the deal between Labour and NZ First. What could they have done about it? Or are you angry because they didn't kill the coalition and let National form the next government?

 

 

 

 

No, I am angry our GREEN party didn't flex their muscles (are you aware they couldn't FORM the Coalition WITHOUT the Greens) and make this a condition of signing it. I would have been annoyed if they had done the same thing if they had formed a coalition with National. Arguably Greens would have gotten a lot more from the National party than the Labour party gave them. They were treated like the poor cousin and it's likely they will fall over completely and cease to exist.

 

In your view, what is more important? Kermadecs or Weed Referendum? What is more important for the *Green* Party to support? (Yes I know Weed is green in colour)


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  Reply # 1994211 11-Apr-2018 11:50
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The colour reference is unnecessarily gratuitous, isn't it? Apart from that, I find both issues important. You seem to want to phrase the marijuana referendum as a license for layabouts to be stoned all the time, but there are genuinely serious issues behind this, such as the diversion of police resources from truly serious evils like meth, and pointless and unnecessary prosecutions of people for doing something a hell of a lot less harmful than sniffing glue. I can't speak for the Greens but personally I see this as a genuinely important social justice issue.

 

The sanctuary is also important, but if the Greens had made it a condition of their participation, there would not have been a coalition, which I suppose is what you would have preferred. There certainly would not have been a Greens/National alliance.

 

 





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  Reply # 1994228 11-Apr-2018 12:00
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Rikkitic:

 

The colour reference is unnecessarily gratuitous, isn't it? Apart from that, I find both issues important. You seem to want to phrase the marijuana referendum as a license for layabouts to be stoned all the time, but there are genuinely serious issues behind this, such as the diversion of police resources from truly serious evils like meth, and pointless and unnecessary prosecutions of people for doing something a hell of a lot less harmful than sniffing glue. I can't speak for the Greens but personally I see this as a genuinely important social justice issue.

 

The sanctuary is also important, but if the Greens had made it a condition of their participation, there would not have been a coalition, which I suppose is what you would have preferred. There certainly would not have been a Greens/National alliance.

 

 

 

 

As usual you are twisting things. Weed Referendum should sit well behind MANY other things in NZ that are much much more important. There are lay abouts stoned now, who cares, except we have to support these people and you'll argue they are hard done by and driven to crime because all the rich people stood on them.

 

The Green party was formed (supposedly but clearly not evidentially) to speak up and act on behalf of the environment. Of the two issues, if you equate them as similarly important, I am honestly lost for words. 

 

The Green party should have stood their ground on the Kermadecs. They got into power, but essentially as the poor cousin without a voice and they got next to no consideration because they were treated as less important than NZF. They sold out on their values. In reality they could have insisted on a number of extra things, including the Kermadec Sanctuary. The Government could not have formed without them.

 

 


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  Reply # 1994239 11-Apr-2018 12:15
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Twisting things? As usual?

 

As usual, you are making unfounded accusations. 

 

The Green Party is composed of two significant wings, one that places emphasis on environmental issues, another primarily concerned with social justice. The recent election of a new female co-leader was an affirmation of the social justice commitment. Both are legitimate and worthy causes. Just because you favour one and dismiss the other does not mean I have to.

 

 





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  Reply # 1994266 11-Apr-2018 14:13
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I think that marijuana legalization versus the Kermadec ccean sanctuary might be a wedge issue.

It probably weakens either noble goals going forward.

Agree to disagree on political capital?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_issue
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_capital
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11984791

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  Reply # 1994267 11-Apr-2018 14:24
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Sorry, I didn't mean to off track the topic, I just consider this issue to be far below the importance of 2 dozen other issues in NZ.

 

It annoys me we would spend as much time on it as we do. At least the flag referendum was about an issue that would have affected every Kiwi.

 

 


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  Reply # 1994284 11-Apr-2018 15:07
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networkn:

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to off track the topic, I just consider this issue to be far below the importance of 2 dozen other issues in NZ.

 

It annoys me we would spend as much time on it as we do. At least the flag referendum was about an issue that would have affected every Kiwi.

 

 

 

 

Respectfully disagree. I think there is a 'trickle up' effect. Legalising pot is not about the relatively small numbers who want to lie around and smoke it all the time. It is about a more just society and focusing resources on real problems. The spinoff for every Kiwi is better and more effective policing, less clogging of the justice system with inconsequentials, elimination of marijuana as gateway drug since people no longer have to go to criminals to obtain it, reduced gang income to fund other illegal activities, increased tax income to fund things we all benefit from, and much, much more but I don't want hijack this thread more than I already have.

 

  





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