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  # 2199379 16-Mar-2019 10:39
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I only heard about this horrible tragedy late yesterday as I was away and out of touch. I didn’t feel able to make an immediate full comment on it as I was still in the process of comprehending the enormity of it and I felt I needed time to come to terms with what had happened. I did not want to feed on it by simply making an emotional knee-jerk response.

 

It is still too soon to respond in full. Something like this takes time. But I do feel ready to say something about it. First, my heart does go out to those who died and those who lost loved ones. This has nothing to do with religion or ethnicity or people with different customs. It is simply a terrible human tragedy that should never have happened. I embrace all who are reeling from this and I share their pain.

 

I tend to hold strong opinions and I have always been opposed to censorship as a matter of principle. I have now changed my mind. I am convinced that nationalist fascist white supremist alt-right or whatever you want to call it ideology is a poisonous infestation that needs to be stamped out. There should be no tolerance for this kind of thinking in a liberal society. It must be stomped on wherever it emerges. People who think this way or even start to think there is anything to it should be slapped silly. These ideas have nothing to do with conservative principles. They are evil and toxic. No right-thinking person should be prepared even to hypothetically entertain them for the sake of argument. There is nothing worthy of argument here.

 

The diseased minds that believe in this kind of crap and try to spread it and – in the worst cases – try to act on it, receive encouragement and validation from others around the world who are able to join together because of modern communications. Even today these evil low-lifes are very much in a minority in any one place, but the Internet and broadcast media allow them to form communities that add weight and legitimacy to their twisted beliefs. I now think they must be silenced wherever they occur. They must be deprived of oxygen. There should be no tolerance for this kind of thing. As a society we cannot control what people think in private, but we can control what gets communicated in public. Bad language and child abuse images are already censored. It is time to add hateful ‘free’ speech. I now believe this is a war, and in war civil liberties get restricted for the sake of the bigger cause.

 

Shock jocks who even hint at racism or cultural prejudice should be banned. Who needs that kind of free speech? Nationalist alt-right sites should be shut down. The slightest peep of this kind of stuff should be enough for an instant ban.

 

My model for this is Geekzone. This site is heavily moderated by intelligent people with solid values who fully allow divergent viewpoints but have no tolerance for fake news or personal attacks or propagandistic right-wing crap. Some don’t like that and have been banned without apology when they complained about it, but those of us who appreciate genuine debate and a real exchange of views don’t have a problem with it. You can be right-wing and get along fine here. You cannot spout political BS and expect a good reception.

 

I am sick of ‘free speech’ arguments about the right to say whatever you like. I think that ‘right’ has been well and truly abrogated by the vicious and devious abuse of it. Right-wing extremists are the enemy and it is time we stopped inviting them in. This cannot be properly encoded in a judicial system that tries to see everything in terms of absolutes. I am all in favour of a Geekzone moderator type of panel that decides issues like this entirely on the basis of common sense and decent values without being tied to formal legal proceedings. A panel of censors, I guess. Their decisions will no doubt be arbitrary and inconsistent and some people will complain. Too bad. That goes with the territory. Still infinitely better than the horrendous stuff currently allowed.

 

I never thought I would come to this but I can’t think of anything better and extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures. At least this should shut up those who think I cannot change my ideas in the face of new evidence.

 







I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 2199396 16-Mar-2019 10:56
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Just in relation to gun laws and some people saying that it's the person with the gun that is the problem, while this is absolutely true because we are all human, why do we need citizens to have semi automatics? If you're using it for sport you're a crap shot and may as well go ten pin bowling with the gutter guards on instead of trying to get better. I liken the argument that it is the person behind the gun who is the problem to someone being hurt or killed cycling on the road, no matter whose fault it is.

 

Do you try to avoid getting hit by the car or do you carry on because they're in the wrong and die as a result. This does not of course excuse the action but what I'm getting at is self preservation in the sense that we don't NEED these semi automatic weapons in the hands of citizens. 

 

I have no idea if that would have stopped the attack but why can't we pull out all the stops to mitigate any event as much as we can? It's kind of like leaving papers all over the floor in a living room with a woodburner, lighting the fire and going to the beach for a few hours. Sure, other things could burn in the house but why put the paper there to help it.

 

FWIW I'm not interested in having long arguments about this, for me I can't be swayed on this topic especially after what has happened - so just a note to not expect replies from me about it. Of course this doesn't mean I don't expect or want anyone to reply/ask questions of what I'm saying, it's a free country.


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  # 2199399 16-Mar-2019 11:03
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@Rikkitic:

 

My model for this is Geekzone. This site is heavily moderated by intelligent people with solid values who fully allow divergent viewpoints but have no tolerance for fake news or personal attacks or propagandistic right-wing crap. Some don’t like that and have been banned without apology when they complained about it, but those of us who appreciate genuine debate and a real exchange of views don’t have a problem with it. You can be right-wing and get along fine here. You cannot spout political BS and expect a good reception.

 

 

And this folks is why we were so heavy handed in banning people over the last six months. Some long time users who suddenly started spouting racist or nationalist views, emboldened by their sense of entitlement to the land and resources, crying those were being taken from the rightful owners - not the natives but only the white folks.

 

There is no space on Geekzone for this extremist view - or even for an extremist view on the opposite side of the political spectrum.

 

If you like it, good. If you don't like then, as always, I suggest you get out of here because at some point your views will start to come out and you will be exposed for the racist, white-supremacist, nationalist scum you are.

 

@Rikkitic:

 

I am sick of ‘free speech’ arguments about the right to say whatever you like. I think that ‘right’ has been well and truly abrogated by the vicious and devious abuse of it. Right-wing extremists are the enemy and it is time we stopped inviting them in. This cannot be properly encoded in a judicial system that tries to see everything in terms of absolutes. I am all in favour of a Geekzone moderator type of panel that decides issues like this entirely on the basis of common sense and decent values without being tied to formal legal proceedings. A panel of censors, I guess. Their decisions will no doubt be arbitrary and inconsistent and some people will complain. Too bad. That goes with the territory. Still infinitely better than the horrendous stuff currently allowed.

 

 

On a private property - e.g. Geekzone - this works well. In public, censorship can be easily used to mute the cries of oppressed people. I suggest reading Fascism: A Warning, by Secretary of State Madeleine Albright to see how perfectly legal laws that protect the citizen's rights can be used for evil when the wrong people get to power, pushed up through the ranks thanks to populist movements and wrong messages like the one spouted by nationalists.

 

@Handle9: freitasm will you continue to use CloudFlare if they don't stop working with these people?

 

 

Yes. Read my reply above. I (unfortunately) replied to someone on Twitter on a similar topic. Cloudflare offers a service, like other companies. They are not complicits on the message. They are not even hosting the original content (they host a copy in a transient way). As mentioned before in this thread, someone asked Cloudflare about the source of the content and he was pointed to the service that actually has the keys to the kingdom.





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  # 2199408 16-Mar-2019 11:11
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MikeB4:

 

I cannot understand why folks would search out and view the video of this, it seems to be be the worst sort of voyeurism or rubber necking. I find it revolting. 

 

 

Fully agree. Having three kids of my own, I know full well if I watched something like that, I would be waking up in the middle of the night imagining what would happen if it were us. Same with ISIS beheading videos. I don't need to see these with my own eyes to understand the depths to which humans can sink.
Even natural disasters - I was slap-bang in the middle of the whole Fukushima earthquake and nuclear thing, and I don't want to watch video of that - it tends to get me obsessing about "what ifs".


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  # 2199409 16-Mar-2019 11:13
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  # 2199413 16-Mar-2019 11:18
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freitasm:

 

There are a couple of fundraising pages that you should consider when donating to help Christchurch victims.

 

United for Christchurch Mosque Shootings - currently at $ 740,000 of a $ 800,000 goal

 

Victim Support Official Page: Christchurch Shooting Victims' Fund - currently at $ 665,000 of an open goal

 

These numbers are at the time of this post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats amazing. Aside from the help these funds will provide, it shows our Moslem friends and other ethnic groups in NZ, that we do care, that NZ still is NZ as far as its people are concerned


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  # 2199416 16-Mar-2019 11:20
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All the mosques around me here in Seattle, WA had armed police stationed outside today Friday
Dropped off some flowers outside our local mosque in Bellevue

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  # 2199423 16-Mar-2019 11:38
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The only identified perp has appeared in court now and pleaded not guilt to one charge of murder. Been remanded in custody (what, no bail???) until April.

 

Nothing has been said about the other man and the woman who were also arrested.


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  # 2199424 16-Mar-2019 11:41
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DarthKermit:

 

The only identified perp has appeared in court now and pleaded not guilt to one charge of murder. Been remanded in custody (what, no bail???) until April.

 

Nothing has been said about the other man and the woman who were also arrested.

 

 

One charge of murder? I hope there will be a lot more until April and after investigations conclude...





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  # 2199427 16-Mar-2019 11:43
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DarthKermit:

 

The only identified perp has appeared in court now and pleaded not guilt to one charge of murder. Been remanded in custody (what, no bail???) until April.

 

Nothing has been said about the other man and the woman who were also arrested.

 

 

Ah, and the photo (where his face is covered), shows him make the (now a meme) white power hand sign. And newspapers websites posted the image. 

 

Burn, nazi.





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  # 2199429 16-Mar-2019 11:45
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From another article on NZ Herald:

 

 

A Christchurch man says he will seek compensation for wrongful arrest for wearing camouflage clothing yesterday while police were dealing with the mosques massacre.

 

Stephen Millar, a 30-year-old father of young children, said he was inadvertently caught up in the police operation when he arrived outside Papanui High School intending to pick up his 13-year-old brother-in-law.

 

A police officer held a gun to his head and ordered him down on the ground.

 

"I looked up at the cop and he said, 'Look at me again and I will shoot you'.

 

"I had no weapons on me."

 

"They had me on my knees, they had a gun in my face.

 

"I said, 'I've done nothing wrong. They said I was an idiot for wearing camouflage clothing."

 

 

Damn right he was an idiot for wear those clothes. People are dumb.





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  # 2199430 16-Mar-2019 11:47
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The Washington Post - Social media platforms were used like lethal weapons in New Zealand. That must change now.

 

March 15 at 10:58 AM

 


Right from the twisted start, those who plotted to kill worshipers at two New Zealand mosques depended on the passive incompetence of Facebook, YouTube and other social media platforms.

 

They depended on the longtime priorities of the tech giants who, for years, have concentrated on maximizing revenue, not protecting safety or decency.

 

They got it.

 

Many hours after the massacre, a horrific 17-minute video - showing a man in black shooting with a semiautomatic rifle at those running from mosques and shooting into piles of bodies - could still be easily accessed on YouTube.

 

My colleague, Washington Post tech reporter Drew Harwell, summed up the social media disaster succinctly in a tweet:

 

“The New Zealand massacre was live-streamed on Facebook, announced on 8chan, reposted on YouTube, commented about on Reddit, and mirrored around the world before the tech companies could even react.” ...

 

 

 




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  # 2199431 16-Mar-2019 11:49
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freitasm:

From another article on NZ Herald:



A Christchurch man says he will seek compensation for wrongful arrest for wearing camouflage clothing yesterday while police were dealing with the mosques massacre.


Stephen Millar, a 30-year-old father of young children, said he was inadvertently caught up in the police operation when he arrived outside Papanui High School intending to pick up his 13-year-old brother-in-law.


A police officer held a gun to his head and ordered him down on the ground.


"I looked up at the cop and he said, 'Look at me again and I will shoot you'.


"I had no weapons on me."


"They had me on my knees, they had a gun in my face.


"I said, 'I've done nothing wrong. They said I was an idiot for wearing camouflage clothing."



Damn right he was an idiot for wear those clothes. People are dumb.



How is he to know that this was going to go down? The man could have been wearing a typical hunting and fishing camo jumper that many farmers and tradesmen wear. Ridiculous to suggest that.

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  # 2199432 16-Mar-2019 11:51
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@Coil:

 

freitasm:

 

From another article on NZ Herald:

 

 

A Christchurch man says he will seek compensation for wrongful arrest for wearing camouflage clothing yesterday while police were dealing with the mosques massacre.

 

Stephen Millar, a 30-year-old father of young children, said he was inadvertently caught up in the police operation when he arrived outside Papanui High School intending to pick up his 13-year-old brother-in-law.

 

A police officer held a gun to his head and ordered him down on the ground.

 

"I looked up at the cop and he said, 'Look at me again and I will shoot you'.

 

"I had no weapons on me."

 

"They had me on my knees, they had a gun in my face.

 

"I said, 'I've done nothing wrong. They said I was an idiot for wearing camouflage clothing."

 

 

Damn right he was an idiot for wear those clothes. People are dumb.

 



How is he to know that this was going to go down? The man could have been wearing a typical hunting and fishing camo jumper that many farmers and tradesmen wear. Ridiculous to suggest that.

 

 

Do you really think that after a shooting spree with 49 dead in the city and knowing the schools are in lockdown, it is sensible idea to go out wearing camo clothes?

 

Or are  you being sarcastic and forgot the smiley?





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