What will happen to National now?

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#3088433 11-Jun-2023 12:54

GV27:

If there's not going to be government super for me then I don't want to pay tax levels that support the kind of super that retirees get today. That's a pretty crappy deal: pay a huge mortgage, pay for everyone else's retirement, but also pay for your own. Millennials are halfway through their working lives, you can't expect them to suddenly free-up the cashflow to finance their own retirement on top of all the other inflated crap they have to provision for

If that's going to be the deal then I'm not paying taxes to fund it for others. Simple.

Not only do we pay huge mortgages but we pay through the nose for everyday items like building materials and food.

When you can buy New Zealand cheese on the other side of the world for half the price we pay here, you have to start asking questions. No, it's not related to the price Fonterra sells the cheese for. The answer lies closer to your fridge than that. We suffer similar issues with building supplies. If we could address these issues then most people would be much better off. The government pretends to address them without actually asking questions in the right places and then comes to the conclusion there is nothing to see time to move along.

The huge mortgages are driven by the way we are encouraged to "invest" plus the recent house price rises driven by government spending/policies. The government coud fix these.

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GV27

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#3088436 11-Jun-2023 13:04

Technofreak:

P.S. What kind of super do you think you and I are funding for retirees today? I sure as hell wouldn't want to be relying on government super to survive. It scares me that that is all some people have to survive on. I don't plan on being in that boat.

I wouldn't be relying on it, hopefully. But I'm not going to turn down hundreds of dollars a week, if it's the difference between being able to enjoy what limited retirement I might be able to have, or having to keep working until I'm dead.

And as for 'that's the attitude that got us into this mess: yes, from people who are currently profiting from it, at the expense of the rest of us. After a crappy deal on education, housing, access to healthcare and likely my retirement, I feel like it's probably time to draw a line. Let the people who caused the problems we have pay for them - you can't just keep handing the bill to one cohort over and over again.

Like I say, I have half my working career behind me. I will be lucky to even be mortgage free when/if I retire. To suddenly say "You have to keep paying tax at today's run rate to fund today's retirees AND save money you don't have left over for your own" is basically saying "have you considered just moving away from New Zealand and never looking back?".

tdgeek

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#3088595 11-Jun-2023 17:14

GV27:

I wouldn't be relying on it, hopefully. But I'm not going to turn down hundreds of dollars a week, if it's the difference between being able to enjoy what limited retirement I might be able to have, or having to keep working until I'm dead.

And as for 'that's the attitude that got us into this mess: yes, from people who are currently profiting from it, at the expense of the rest of us. After a crappy deal on education, housing, access to healthcare and likely my retirement, I feel like it's probably time to draw a line. Let the people who caused the problems we have pay for them - you can't just keep handing the bill to one cohort over and over again.

Like I say, I have half my working career behind me. I will be lucky to even be mortgage free when/if I retire. To suddenly say "You have to keep paying tax at today's run rate to fund today's retirees AND save money you don't have left over for your own" is basically saying "have you considered just moving away from New Zealand and never looking back?".

Perhaps we need a new Govt that will give big tax cuts, support the ageing infrastructure, make retirement easy, and have a big surplus each year so we can provide for Climate Change issues (ruined housing, relocation of housing, etc, that will be an annual event year on year).

Technofreak

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#3088654 11-Jun-2023 21:17

tdgeek:

GV27:

I wouldn't be relying on it, hopefully. But I'm not going to turn down hundreds of dollars a week, if it's the difference between being able to enjoy what limited retirement I might be able to have, or having to keep working until I'm dead.

And as for 'that's the attitude that got us into this mess: yes, from people who are currently profiting from it, at the expense of the rest of us. After a crappy deal on education, housing, access to healthcare and likely my retirement, I feel like it's probably time to draw a line. Let the people who caused the problems we have pay for them - you can't just keep handing the bill to one cohort over and over again.

Like I say, I have half my working career behind me. I will be lucky to even be mortgage free when/if I retire. To suddenly say "You have to keep paying tax at today's run rate to fund today's retirees AND save money you don't have left over for your own" is basically saying "have you considered just moving away from New Zealand and never looking back?".

Perhaps we need a new Govt that will give big tax cuts, support the ageing infrastructure, make retirement easy, and have a big surplus each year so we can provide for Climate Change issues (ruined housing, relocation of housing, etc, that will be an annual event year on year).

I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

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Technofreak

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#3088656 11-Jun-2023 21:24

GV27:

Technofreak:

P.S. What kind of super do you think you and I are funding for retirees today? I sure as hell wouldn't want to be relying on government super to survive. It scares me that that is all some people have to survive on. I don't plan on being in that boat.

I wouldn't be relying on it, hopefully. But I'm not going to turn down hundreds of dollars a week, if it's the difference between being able to enjoy what limited retirement I might be able to have, or having to keep working until I'm dead.

And as for 'that's the attitude that got us into this mess: yes, from people who are currently profiting from it, at the expense of the rest of us. After a crappy deal on education, housing, access to healthcare and likely my retirement, I feel like it's probably time to draw a line. Let the people who caused the problems we have pay for them - you can't just keep handing the bill to one cohort over and over again.

Like I say, I have half my working career behind me. I will be lucky to even be mortgage free when/if I retire. To suddenly say "You have to keep paying tax at today's run rate to fund today's retirees AND save money you don't have left over for your own" is basically saying "have you considered just moving away from New Zealand and never looking back?".

I agree it is time to draw a line.

Unfortunately the ship sail a long time ago, probably last century. Getting the people who caused these problems to pay for them isn't going to happen. They don't pay taxes anymore, most of them are probably dead. We've been kicking this can down the road for a very long time now.

Unfortunately some of us are going to pay twice before this issue is resolved. I kind of like the guarantee of knowing what level of income I should have in my retirement rather than just hoping the government will be generous. I want to know I'll have the ability to do the things I want rather than just having a subsistence life style

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Technofreak

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#3088708 11-Jun-2023 21:44

Looks.like I accidentally deleted this post. It was above post 3088433

GV27:

Technofreak:

We should be making very effort to encourage the adoption a a system like Kiwi Saver as in the long term it will reduce/remove the need for government super.

The mandatory contribution levels could/should be increased slowly over time to reduce the immediate impact on take home pay. We need to ensure that Kiwi Saver provides a worthwhile income for peoples retirement.

If there's not going to be government super for me then I don't want to pay tax levels that support the kind of super that retirees get today. That's a pretty crappy deal: pay a huge mortgage, pay for everyone else's retirement, but also pay for your own. Millennials are halfway through their working lives, you can't expect them to suddenly free-up the cashflow to finance their own retirement on top of all the other inflated crap they have to provision for

If that's going to be the deal then I'm not paying taxes to fund it for others. Simple.

It's exactly that sort of attitude that's got us to where we are today.

I agree it seems unfair to be paying for someone else and yourself. That's what taxes tend to do.

We are victims of successive governments who had promised one thing then only to have another goverment bastardise things and steal that money for other uses. You can bet the actions of the current government with their wasteful spending will result in belt tightening that impacts the useful value of future super payments for people like you and I.

Have you considered the scenario where the government super you might get when you retire is pretty much worthless or non existent. You will still have paid though.

We need to move to a system where our super is free of greedy government fingers. While it might not be fair, is it not better to be paying taxes while paying for something like Kiwi Saver, or a suitable alternative, which, barring a catostrophic financial market collapse (like the 1929 crash) about the time you retire will give you a standard of living relative to what you were used prior to retirement rather than a subsistence or worse government super? I know which I'd rather have.

P.S. What kind of super do you think you and I are funding for retirees today? I sure as hell wouldn't want to be relying on government super to survive. It scares me that that is all some people have to survive on. I don't plan on being in that boat.

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sir1963

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#3088715 11-Jun-2023 22:04

Technofreak:

I agree it is time to draw a line.

Unfortunately the ship sail a long time ago, probably last century. Getting the people who caused these problems to pay for them isn't going to happen. They don't pay taxes anymore, most of them are probably dead. We've been kicking this can down the road for a very long time now.

Unfortunately some of us are going to pay twice before this issue is resolved. I kind of like the guarantee of knowing what level of income I should have in my retirement rather than just hoping the government will be generous. I want to know I'll have the ability to do the things I want rather than just subsistence.

Which is one of the reasons I got into rentals properties it was an investment that I controlled, I understood. I had seen my mum lose a lot of money in the sharemarket (goldcorp, Brierly's, etc).

Neither of my parents lived long enough to get a pension.

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GV27

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#3088738 12-Jun-2023 06:17

Technofreak:

I agree it is time to draw a line.

Unfortunately the ship sail a long time ago, probably last century. Getting the people who caused these problems to pay for them isn't going to happen. They don't pay taxes anymore, most of them are probably dead. We've been kicking this can down the road for a very long time now.

Unfortunately some of us are going to pay twice before this issue is resolved. I kind of like the guarantee of knowing what level of income I should have in my retirement rather than just hoping the government will be generous. I want to know I'll have the ability to do the things I want rather than just having a subsistence life style

That line very conveniently keeps ending up with the millennial cohort.

There is an expectation that they will, after paying off student loans, saving massive deposits that would have paid for a whole house for their parents and then the mortgage that comes along with it, suddenly have another 2x that amount to finance their own retirement as well as paying taxes through their working lives for the people who get a benefit they are expected to just surrender, to help them cover costs once they can no longer work.

Foisting this on Kiwis who are halfway through their working lives with little disposable income to pivot towards what would be a stonking attempt at 'catch-up mode' isn't going to work. It's not a choice that we actually are able to make. This isn't just a question of 'fairness'. It's a question of it literally not being possible.

quickymart

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#3088755 12-Jun-2023 08:09

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/132254746/christopher-luxons-properties-affected-by-density-laws-he-plans-to-scrap

This isn't a great look.

GV27

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#3088759 12-Jun-2023 08:21

quickymart:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/132254746/christopher-luxons-properties-affected-by-density-laws-he-plans-to-scrap

This isn't a great look.

In shock move, Luxon confirms his houses are subject to the same planning rules as everyone else?

GV27

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#3088761 12-Jun-2023 08:31

I feel like 'Chris Luxon has correctly declared rentals (cue outrage!!!)' stories are possibly a strategic case of misdirection to try and forget about the actual government Ministers we have in front of committees about misleading parliament and subject to investigations about failing to disclose their financial interests.

Could be a coincidence, IDK, I'm not a doctor.

sir1963

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#3088763 12-Jun-2023 08:34

GV27:

Technofreak:

I agree it is time to draw a line.

Unfortunately the ship sail a long time ago, probably last century. Getting the people who caused these problems to pay for them isn't going to happen. They don't pay taxes anymore, most of them are probably dead. We've been kicking this can down the road for a very long time now.

Unfortunately some of us are going to pay twice before this issue is resolved. I kind of like the guarantee of knowing what level of income I should have in my retirement rather than just hoping the government will be generous. I want to know I'll have the ability to do the things I want rather than just having a subsistence life style

That line very conveniently keeps ending up with the millennial cohort.

There is an expectation that they will, after paying off student loans, saving massive deposits that would have paid for a whole house for their parents and then the mortgage that comes along with it, suddenly have another 2x that amount to finance their own retirement as well as paying taxes through their working lives for the people who get a benefit they are expected to just surrender, to help them cover costs once they can no longer work.

Foisting this on Kiwis who are halfway through their working lives with little disposable income to pivot towards what would be a stonking attempt at 'catch-up mode' isn't going to work. It's not a choice that we actually are able to make. This isn't just a question of 'fairness'. It's a question of it literally not being possible.

The Disabled agree with you.....so much not being possible. And at the end they will also have no kiwi saver.

Technofreak

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#3088769 12-Jun-2023 08:51

GV27:

Technofreak:

I agree it is time to draw a line.

Unfortunately the ship sail a long time ago, probably last century. Getting the people who caused these problems to pay for them isn't going to happen. They don't pay taxes anymore, most of them are probably dead. We've been kicking this can down the road for a very long time now.

Unfortunately some of us are going to pay twice before this issue is resolved. I kind of like the guarantee of knowing what level of income I should have in my retirement rather than just hoping the government will be generous. I want to know I'll have the ability to do the things I want rather than just having a subsistence life style

That line very conveniently keeps ending up with the millennial cohort.

There is an expectation that they will, after paying off student loans, saving massive deposits that would have paid for a whole house for their parents and then the mortgage that comes along with it, suddenly have another 2x that amount to finance their own retirement as well as paying taxes through their working lives for the people who get a benefit they are expected to just surrender, to help them cover costs once they can no longer work.

Foisting this on Kiwis who are halfway through their working lives with little disposable income to pivot towards what would be a stonking attempt at 'catch-up mode' isn't going to work. It's not a choice that we actually are able to make. This isn't just a question of 'fairness'. It's a question of it literally not being possible.

Are you in Kiwi Saver now? Anyone on Kiwi Saver is already paying twice. If you're not in some sort of super scheme you really need to think about what your retirement fund is going to look like.

We (New Zealand) need to up our game with the likes of Kiwi Saver. The changes I suggested are not overnight changes. The would be gradual and flagged well in advance so that people know they are coming so that they can prepare for them.

One thing about mortgages assuming you didn't jump in to something well above your head (maxed out on cheap interest rates with no allowance for them to increase) is after the first few years your wages/salary have increased giving you some headroom. While things are very tight to start with they do improve, unless interest rates increase out of hand. What might seem imposssible today does usually become possible tomorrow.

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Technofreak

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#3088770 12-Jun-2023 08:52

quickymart:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/132254746/christopher-luxons-properties-affected-by-density-laws-he-plans-to-scrap

This isn't a great look.

Why?

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#3088822 12-Jun-2023 09:13

quickymart:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/132254746/christopher-luxons-properties-affected-by-density-laws-he-plans-to-scrap

This isn't a great look.

Why ? "Not a good look" will be the Kainga Ora Mass constructions they are building.

How can putting 100+ people with complex social, mental health, addiction needs into an small area ever be a good idea ?

Multi story units, no yards, no place to have a BBQ, no gardens, no quiet, no place to destress and surrounded by lot of others "having a bad day".

THAT is insanity .

Worse is that all the people in the neighbourhoods had very little say and get brushed off with corporate speak "Wrap around services....blah blah blah". We regularly see KO tenants destroying neighbourhoods.

Should KA build houses, 100% yes, but they should be distributed so that individuals are no surrounded by others with their own social stresses where each will feed off the other.

We are now at the stage where a 250sqm patch of land is considered a "section".

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