What will happen to National now?

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#3088823 12-Jun-2023 09:15

Technofreak:

Are you in Kiwi Saver now? Anyone on Kiwi Saver is already paying twice. If you're not in some sort of super scheme you really need to think about what your retirement fund is going to look like.

Kiwisaver was floated as supplemental to the pension to help address affordability issues. Many people have joined, planned and saved on that basis.

If the plan is now suddenly to pull the rug out from workers again by yanking the pension entirely, then that's a pretty huge breach of the social contract that keeps us all happily and obediently paying tax that funds super for people who get it without question today.

I would need to make a tough decision about whether I can realistically save enough to ever retire in NZ, or whether it's a case of getting somewhere like Australia where I might have an actual chance at it.

sir1963

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#3088826 12-Jun-2023 09:29

GV27:

Technofreak:

Are you in Kiwi Saver now? Anyone on Kiwi Saver is already paying twice. If you're not in some sort of super scheme you really need to think about what your retirement fund is going to look like.

Kiwisaver was floated as supplemental to the pension to help address affordability issues. Many people have joined, planned and saved on that basis.

If the plan is now suddenly to pull the rug out from workers again by yanking the pension entirely, then that's a pretty huge breach of the social contract that keeps us all happily and obediently paying tax that funds super for people who get it without question today.

I would need to make a tough decision about whether I can realistically save enough to ever retire in NZ, or whether it's a case of getting somewhere like Australia where I might have an actual chance at it.

EVERY generation has paid the pension for the generation before them. This is not new.

HEAPS of people pay for that pension then die before they ever get to collect it.

Heaps more have wrecked bodies, blown knees, hips , back who are unable to get the pension sooner and have an even lower quality of life.

GV27

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#3088830 12-Jun-2023 09:33

sir1963:

EVERY generation has paid the pension for the generation before them. This is not new.

HEAPS of people pay for that pension then die before they ever get to collect it.

Heaps more have wrecked bodies, blown knees, hips , back who are unable to get the pension sooner and have an even lower quality of life.

No generation has been told they have to pay for someone else to get a pension but they won't get one themselves.

That's the point.

sir1963

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#3088835 12-Jun-2023 09:42

GV27:

sir1963:

EVERY generation has paid the pension for the generation before them. This is not new.

HEAPS of people pay for that pension then die before they ever get to collect it.

Heaps more have wrecked bodies, blown knees, hips , back who are unable to get the pension sooner and have an even lower quality of life.

No generation has been told they have to pay for someone else to get a pension but they won't get one themselves.

That's the point.

Sounds incredibly like the "Tax Loophole" Labour found for landlords, but no other business..

gzt

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#3088850 12-Jun-2023 10:00

tdgeek: = I'm happy to debate the concept but not the ages as they are deemed arbitrary here as they will be applicable from DOB and constantly adjusting depending on when you were born.

Perople in some occupations do tend to have a shorter working life due to the nature of the work and the accumulated effects. I liked the incentive thinking earlier on. There's more than one way of increasing contributions. I think there's a case for higher kiwisaver employer contributions in those industries and positions.

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#3088857 12-Jun-2023 10:23

GV27:

If the plan is now suddenly to pull the rug out from workers again by yanking the pension entirely, then that's a pretty huge breach of the social contract that keeps us all happily and obediently paying tax that funds super for people who get it without question today.

Is that the plan? It seems to be speculation in this thread the last day or two

tdgeek

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#3089150 12-Jun-2023 18:37

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/06/christopher-luxon-calls-new-zealand-very-negative-wet-whiney-inward-looking.html

100% agree with that.

In terms of the headline.

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gzt

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#3089203 12-Jun-2023 20:37

Article: The final pillar in National's policy is to scrap the GE and GM ban, allowing things like low-emission grasses, feed, and vaccines.

Imo GE and GM is not a good move for New Zealand, or the National Party. It's going to be unpopular among many primary producers, aka farmers.

Technofreak

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#3089219 12-Jun-2023 21:01

GV27:

Technofreak:

Are you in Kiwi Saver now? Anyone on Kiwi Saver is already paying twice. If you're not in some sort of super scheme you really need to think about what your retirement fund is going to look like.

Kiwisaver was floated as supplemental to the pension to help address affordability issues. Many people have joined, planned and saved on that basis.

If the plan is now suddenly to pull the rug out from workers again by yanking the pension entirely, then that's a pretty huge breach of the social contract that keeps us all happily and obediently paying tax that funds super for people who get it without question today.

I would need to make a tough decision about whether I can realistically save enough to ever retire in NZ, or whether it's a case of getting somewhere like Australia where I might have an actual chance at it.

No it's not the plan. It's my thoughts on where government super is heading sooner or later.

No one is talking about pulling the rug but conversely anyone who is planning on government super to under pin their retirement in the future is being rather hopeful.

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Technofreak

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#3089221 12-Jun-2023 21:04

gzt:
Article: The final pillar in National's policy is to scrap the GE and GM ban, allowing things like low-emission grasses, feed, and vaccines.

Imo GE and GM is not a good move for New Zealand, or the National Party. It's going to be unpopular among many primary producers, aka farmers.

Don't you think we've been doing it for years already in one form or another. How did we get gold and red kiwifruit?

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gzt

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#3089222 12-Jun-2023 21:11

No, not at all. Mutation and selection are used to generate varietals and those are entirely different techniques. Completely different.

quickymart

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#3089564 13-Jun-2023 16:32

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/tesla-recoil-christopher-luxon-ordered-then-cancelled-taxpayer-funded-tesla-while-criticising-tesla-subsidies/D6BMKILVY5DTNBYS6E7YHISKR4/

I suppose this is all good, too.

blackjack17

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#3089736 13-Jun-2023 21:16

Technofreak:

Don't you think we've been doing it for years already in one form or another. How did we get gold and red kiwifruit?

In agriculture artificial selection is separate from creating GMOs.

Gold and Red kiwifruit (and even the green) are the result of artificial selection, as are all other organisms that we farm.

The use of GE tools means going in and actually modifying the genes of an organism something we don't currently allow.

Whether we should or shouldn't use GMOs is a good question but it shouldn't be a political point scoring issue. We need to examine it from an economic point of view, and balance if NZ farmers can operate more efficiently with a reduced environmental impact verses a market premium for GMO free grass raised product. Once we start it we can't really turn back.

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#3089740 13-Jun-2023 21:40

quickymart:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/tesla-recoil-christopher-luxon-ordered-then-cancelled-taxpayer-funded-tesla-while-criticising-tesla-subsidies/D6BMKILVY5DTNBYS6E7YHISKR4/

I suppose this is all good, too.

Probably just sorry he was caught. The hypocrisy.

The Herald understands Luxon was talked out of ordering the car by horrified staff and at least one senior MP, who believed the purchase would be a massive political risk.

The order was placed last year, shortly before Luxon lashed out at the Government for its clean car discount policy, telling Newshub’s AM Show Labour was taxing people driving utes to help “wealthy Tesla drivers by giving them subsidies”. The Government’s clean car discount, under last year’s settings, took more than $8000 off the price of a Tesla.

GV27

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#3089830 14-Jun-2023 06:47

quickymart:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/tesla-recoil-christopher-luxon-ordered-then-cancelled-taxpayer-funded-tesla-while-criticising-tesla-subsidies/D6BMKILVY5DTNBYS6E7YHISKR4/

I suppose this is all good, too.

No, this one is legitimately funny and actually worth making fun of.

I mean their talking about about 'funding Teslas' was pretty shit to begin with, although that's mostly been Bishop and (ugh) Brown pushing that angle.

But it's almost certain this is coming from within the party itself at this point, so something is up.

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