What will happen to National now?

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#3090162 15-Jun-2023 06:00

gzt:

I expect some of that has eased related to increased emergency accommodation and reduced migration and the like still following on from Covid. Likewise driving around town I can see a fair bit of new construction completed lately and more coming to completion very soon. Some of it is planned social housing, and I'm guessing some of the smaller private developments follow from the cross party planning accord. Even so, I tend to agree. Substantial broadcast followup on those issues of concern is something I've been looking out for and have not noticed.

Likewise, another thing National should have been dragged for, quite rightly, is the walking away from urban infill intensification in favour of greenfields. It may not have been perfect but it was better than ringfencing the wealthy parts of cities and forcing development out into poor disconnected suburbs and the fringes. Now they're doubling down on it.

Unfortunately legitimate criticism like this gets lost when you have a hyper-reflexive LUXON BAD environment that is more about looking for something new to drag him on all the time, partially because you can avoid acknowledging that the sitting government isn't exactly making much progress in anything you can point to as a positive point of difference.

tdgeek

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#3090167 15-Jun-2023 07:16

This is the National thread not the Government thread

As to looking for something to drag him on, that's on him, not anyone here or the media.

tdgeek

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#3090169 15-Jun-2023 07:33

Another view, the current Government gets measured on capability, so does the Opposition. Labour wise, review the last 6 years. National wise review their potential capability. Any criticisms of National based on the seemingly weekly silly things and occasional policy rollbacks is merely commenting on their potential capability.

Both parties are open for bouquets and brickbats

quickymart

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#3090696 16-Jun-2023 12:08

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/political-roundup-its-true-that-new-zealand-has-lost-its-mojo/MLJT2FUATNCQVDCZQ4QRLRLKDM/

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#3090701 16-Jun-2023 12:25

As a general convention please summarise links or use a short quote. It makes for better discussion. Users can respond to quotes instead of 100% needing to visit the link provided and make some guess about what might be intended.

ockel

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#3090827 16-Jun-2023 17:56

The 5th National Government inherited a recession in 2008 (first negative quarter being March 2008) - and NZ endured 5 quarters of negative growth.

Is history repeating itself? And should we run a poll on how many quarters of growth the 6th Labour Government will have delivered to NZ?

[and for those that say the cyclone is the reason for the recession - the first period of negative growth preceded the cyclone (and was revised downwards in the most recent quarter) and the adjustments that Stats NZ made for both cyclones and school strikes may adjust the March quarter up or down in the June and September quarters]

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

tdgeek

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#3090832 16-Jun-2023 18:28

quickymart:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/political-roundup-its-true-that-new-zealand-has-lost-its-mojo/MLJT2FUATNCQVDCZQ4QRLRLKDM/

Notably, there haven’t been any significant attempts to refute his claims – probably because most people, including the Labour Government, realise it’s true. However, it’s far from clear that Luxon and his National Party have a handle on why New Zealand is in decline, or how this might be turned around.

Its been going on and building for decades, its that simple.

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tdgeek

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#3090835 16-Jun-2023 18:35

ockel:

The 5th National Government inherited a recession in 2008 (first negative quarter being March 2008) - and NZ endured 5 quarters of negative growth.

Is history repeating itself? And should we run a poll on how many quarters of growth the 6th Labour Government will have delivered to NZ?

[and for those that say the cyclone is the reason for the recession - the first period of negative growth preceded the cyclone (and was revised downwards in the most recent quarter) and the adjustments that Stats NZ made for both cyclones and school strikes may adjust the March quarter up or down in the June and September quarters]

Covid has affected the globe. Spending and production

Cyclones dont help as they consume funds that could go to Health, Education, Infrastructure etc. Wasted funds, as was the CHC EQ's. Wasted. A Govt has to provide, no choice. Maybe we need to man up and say lets pretend that Health, Education, Infrastructure etc.HAVE to be spent. I see that Health, Education, Infrastructure etc are more important than one off disasters, so lets sort them. But when a Govt has a choice and there is a contribution from the masses, the masses will vote otherwise. aka human nature.

gzt

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#3090836 16-Jun-2023 18:45

ockel: The 5th National Government inherited a recession in 2008 (first negative quarter being March 2008)

Maybe so. This was the 2007 Global Financial Crisis. Read all about it:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932008_financial_crisis

ockel

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#3090850 16-Jun-2023 20:14

gzt:
ockel: The 5th National Government inherited a recession in 2008 (first negative quarter being March 2008)

Maybe so. This was the 2007 Global Financial Crisis. Read all about it:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932008_financial_crisis

I'm well aware of it. I made some of my best returns during it while people fretted about the world. Nothing like volatility and fear to create opportunities.

That was a genuine global economic crisis that NZ had to contend with. This is a deeper hole of our own making (compare our economies with others).

For the record my money is flowing out of the country this time around, rather than buying NZ opportunities. But if the current trajectory continues there will be real opportunities to be had domestically.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

Technofreak

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#3091108 17-Jun-2023 14:19

tdgeek:

Covid has affected the globe. Spending and production

Cyclones dont help as they consume funds that could go to Health, Education, Infrastructure etc. Wasted funds, as was the CHC EQ's. Wasted. A Govt has to provide, no choice. Maybe we need to man up and say lets pretend that Health, Education, Infrastructure etc.HAVE to be spent. I see that Health, Education, Infrastructure etc are more important than one off disasters, so lets sort them. But when a Govt has a choice and there is a contribution from the masses, the masses will vote otherwise. aka human nature.

Yes, Covid affected the globe and the cyclones haven't helped.

Most economists outside of government circles will tell you our government's spending during Covid was very wasteful. The money could have been much better targeted. The government received advice telling them their plans were a poor use of public funds but they chose to ignore this advice. In addition they used Covid as a cover for spending they normally wouldn't get away with. As a result we had record house price rises driven by an economy artificially flush with government money.

It's no wonder we don't have money for education and health.

Our spending during Covid per capita was second only to the USA.

We are the only first world economy in recession. We have to ask the question why?

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gzt

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#3091205 17-Jun-2023 18:16

Technofreak: We are the only first world economy in recession. We have to ask the question why?

We do have to ask why you keep saying this in different topics. The only first world economy in recession? It just isn't true.

Handle9

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#3091317 18-Jun-2023 07:31

gzt:
Technofreak: We are the only first world economy in recession. We have to ask the question why?

We do have to ask why you keep saying this in different topics. The only first world economy in recession? It just isn't true.

It must mean Germany and the Eurozone are now third world.

GV27

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#3091831 19-Jun-2023 05:58

tdgeek:

Covid has affected the globe. Spending and production

Cyclones dont help as they consume funds that could go to Health, Education, Infrastructure etc. Wasted funds, as was the CHC EQ's. Wasted. A Govt has to provide, no choice. Maybe we need to man up and say lets pretend that Health, Education, Infrastructure etc.HAVE to be spent. I see that Health, Education, Infrastructure etc are more important than one off disasters, so lets sort them. But when a Govt has a choice and there is a contribution from the masses, the masses will vote otherwise. aka human nature.

The masses made their contribution, they elected a government to fix these things that campaigned on them specifically. They were making close to no progress pre-Covid, so being able to blame Covid now for the total of six years of inaction is extremely convenient for them.

Covid only started kicking our ass in 2020. We had a whole term of nothing happening or policy being abandoned and no one was allowed to say anything because it was too soon, now it's three years later and we have 'but Covid'. What will it be in another three, six, nine years? How much higher will the government tax take be? How much harder will it be to access drugs or medicine? Will everything still be fine then too?

tdgeek

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#3091835 19-Jun-2023 07:39

GV27:

The masses made their contribution, they elected a government to fix these things that campaigned on them specifically. They were making close to no progress pre-Covid, so being able to blame Covid now for the total of six years of inaction is extremely convenient for them.

Covid only started kicking our ass in 2020. We had a whole term of nothing happening or policy being abandoned and no one was allowed to say anything because it was too soon, now it's three years later and we have 'but Covid'. What will it be in another three, six, nine years? How much higher will the government tax take be? How much harder will it be to access drugs or medicine? Will everything still be fine then too?

What was it for the last 4 to 5 decades? There has been ample opportunity by all past Governments to fix things, or more reasonably, gradually improve things so that NZ can avoid a situation where everything backs right up. The latter has been occurring since circa 2000, so pre and post 2000 Governments have not acted. Blame them instead of the incumbent. And instead of the following Government assuming that changes.

You can maintain your house each year, or leave it till 50 years later and find yourself in a whole heap of trouble. Welcome to NZ

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