What will happen to National now?

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Forums › Politics › What will happen to National now?

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Networkn
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#2708386 17-May-2021 12:55

Rikkitic:

I saw an item just the other day that child poverty has actually been reduced. I don't recall the exact source or the degree of reduction. I think it was a statistical comparison. I also saw another article, I think on CNN, that house prices have exploded throughout the developed world as an unexpected consequence of Covid. The average rate of increase seems to be about 20%. It is kind of hard to blame all that on the New Zealand government.

I've heard the exact opposite about Child Poverty in NZ, including a panel of the heads of NZ Kids charities who said that on pretty much every metric they measure, kids are worse off than they were 4 years ago.

It's funny how when National is in charge, housing prices are all the fault of National, and their failure to 'fix' it, is unacceptable, but when Labour is in charge, those poor wee souls are just dealing with a situation outside of their control...

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#2708391 17-May-2021 13:03

I certainly wouldn't suggest that things are good, poverty-wise, I just saw something more than a rumour that they had improved somewhat. I don't dispute that they remain pretty dire.

It's funny how when National is in charge, nothing happens so everyone votes for Labour!

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networkn

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#2708397 17-May-2021 13:14

Rikkitic:

It's funny how when National is in charge, nothing happens so everyone votes for Labour!

So that nothing can happen :)

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#2708409 17-May-2021 13:42

networkn:
antonknee:

It’s also reassuring that the opposition for opposition’s sake/we don’t like the government’s idea but haven’t got any ourselves approach isn’t paying any dividends either.

As opposed to making up fairy tales to get elected and not delivering on them. Much better.

Fairy tales are a whole lot better than racist attacks.

Rikkitic

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#2708414 17-May-2021 13:52

networkn:

I think this is the one I was thinking of:

"All measures of child poverty were trending downwards, prior to the COVID-19 lockdown, across the two years since the year ended June 2018, Stats NZ said today."

“All measures of child poverty showed downward trends from the year ended June 2018, with some statistically significant decreases,” Mr Broughton said.

It goes on to say that things are worse as a result of Covid, and not good by any measure, but they were getting better and even you can't blame Labour for Covid.

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Varkk

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#2708416 17-May-2021 13:58

If the National party leadership wasn't such an omnishambles I think the poll would have come out very differently. Although the things Labour is being legitimately criticised on are things which National and their core support are happy with being the way they are (Public sector pay freeze, rising house prices etc) If anything Labour are vulnerable to bleeding votes out to the left with people who want a strong public service and direct government action on housing, climate etc.

networkn

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#2708419 17-May-2021 14:01

Rikkitic:

networkn:

I think this is the one I was thinking of:

"All measures of child poverty were trending downwards, prior to the COVID-19 lockdown, across the two years since the year ended June 2018, Stats NZ said today."

“All measures of child poverty showed downward trends from the year ended June 2018, with some statistically significant decreases,” Mr Broughton said.

It goes on to say that things are worse as a result of Covid, and not good by any measure, but they were getting better and even you can't blame Labour for Covid.

That's interesting. I wonder why there is such a disparity between sources. I regularly hear on various stations, including Radio NZ, that the poor are worse off now than ever before, or a variation of that.

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Varkk

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#2708436 17-May-2021 14:11

networkn:

That's interesting. I wonder why there is such a disparity between sources. I regularly hear on various stations, including Radio NZ, that the poor are worse off now than ever before, or a variation of that.

The way I am reading it was things were slowly starting to improve in 2018 and in to 2019. But then the impact of the pandemic has wiped out all those improvements and then some more.

Rikkitic

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#2708449 17-May-2021 14:20

Joking aside, I just don't like the ideological basis that seems to drive National. Which is not to say they haven't had some ideas in the past that I approved of. The biggest problem I have with them today is the apparent racism of their current leader, and especially, the fascist flirtations of the previous one. I don't think for a moment that Bridges actually is a fascist, but his cosying up to Filipino politicians like Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Teodoro “Teddy Boy” Locsin Jr, who has gone on record praising the Final Solution, displays appalling ignorance, moral irresponsibility and utter lack of judgement at very best. The fact that he even still has a prominent role in the National Party says everything I ever need to know about it. If there is to be a conservative right-of-centre political movement in this country, it cannot be the National Party. They have abrogated every trace of credibility they may ever have possessed. The sooner they are buried once and for all, the better.

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arcon

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#2708467 17-May-2021 14:59

networkn:

That's interesting. I wonder why there is such a disparity between sources. I regularly hear on various stations, including Radio NZ, that the poor are worse off now than ever before, or a variation of that.

Because radio hosts generally aren't punished for spouting stupid garbage from their face hole, would be my guess.

It doesn't take much digging at Stats NZ or Wiki to learn child poverty rates were very bad in the 90s and 2000s compared to now. Both National and Labour made significant reductions to child poverty rates, except the Income Before Housing Costs metric which has been up & down, but is basically the same in 2020 as it was in 2013 (data does not include this year's results).

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#2708471 17-May-2021 15:02

arcon:

Because radio hosts generally aren't punished for spouting stupid garbage from their face hole, would be my guess.

Well, it wasn't just them, it was the representatives of a number of child charities..

I guess they are just saying they are seeing unprecedented use of their services to make the Government look bad.

1101

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#2708525 17-May-2021 16:48

Rikkitic:

"All measures of child poverty... "

question. What is child poverty.
If some of the yardsticks are nonsense should we expect any worthwhile stats ?

To paraphrase Jim Bolger
a slice of cheese, 2 slices of bread (re hungry kids at school) .
I didnt allways eat lunch at school. Where I in child poverty (despite not being poor) ?

1101

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#2708529 17-May-2021 17:00

https://www.stats.govt.nz/methods/measuring-child-poverty-material-hardship#appendix1

home contents insurance (I dont have that)
give presents to family or friends on birthdays, Christmas or other special occasions
two pairs of shoes (I only had 1 pair as a kid)
delay replacing or repairing broken or damaged appliances (OK , most of us have had to do that at one time)

it should just have been access to heathy foods, doctors visits etc.

Rikkitic

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#2708534 17-May-2021 17:13

1101:

question. What is child poverty.
If some of the yardsticks are nonsense should we expect any worthwhile stats ?

I think you are being a bit precious about this, and maybe also a bit insulting. While there will always be individual examples that don't meet whatever definition is being applied, or exceptions to the rule, or marginal cases that don't quite fit any definition, for those who are in this unfortunate situation, poverty is very real and can be very grim. People who are impoverished don't give a damn how many shoes you had as a kid, and it is a stupid measure to use.

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antonknee

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#2708555 17-May-2021 18:59

networkn:

antonknee:

It’s also reassuring that the opposition for opposition’s sake/we don’t like the government’s idea but haven’t got any ourselves approach isn’t paying any dividends either.

As opposed to making up fairy tales to get elected and not delivering on them. Much better.

I prefer fairy tales to racism. In any case it depends on which ‘fairy tale’ you look at doesn’t it?

I’m the first to admit that the previous government did a fairly poor job on delivering a lot of their promises (however please note a collation government cannot be fairly compared to each party’s campaign promises) and the current doesn’t exactly inspire me with confidence. There have been some hits and some (big) misses, but show me a government or politician who delivers all their promises?

End of the day - would you rather have the current government with all their faults, or the Collins administration?

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