What will happen to National now?

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#2770506 2-Sep-2021 11:37

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-judith-collins-launches-miq-policy-fronts-after-disaster-interview/EGVCYOSFJZBSDC3PBC3EAKFSD4/

I guess at least they're not saying "just open the borders" like last year. Did Judith herself say this? I don't remember.

quickymart

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#2770633 2-Sep-2021 14:18

More information on their plan for MIQ.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/covid-19-how-national-s-proposal-to-fix-broken-miq-system-compares-to-government-s-solution.html

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#2770769 2-Sep-2021 19:49

quickymart:

More information on their plan for MIQ.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/covid-19-how-national-s-proposal-to-fix-broken-miq-system-compares-to-government-s-solution.html

Yeah them wanting to ban the bots the Streisand effect comes to mind.

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#2770825 2-Sep-2021 21:18

JaseNZ:
quickymart:

More information on their plan for MIQ.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/covid-19-how-national-s-proposal-to-fix-broken-miq-system-compares-to-government-s-solution.html

Yeah them wanting to ban the bots the Streisand effect comes to mind.

I guess you've seen that after months of denying the problem the MIQ leadership are implementing a lobby to do this?

Nationals proposals for MIQ are generally pretty good. It's a shame they get drowned out by the clown show.

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#2770872 3-Sep-2021 08:16

Handle9:
Nationals proposals for MIQ are generally pretty good. It's a shame they get drowned out by the clown show.

National need a range of such new ideas across the political spectrum to mount a comeback with voter support.

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networkn

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#2770879 3-Sep-2021 08:37

OldGeek:

Handle9:
Nationals proposals for MIQ are generally pretty good. It's a shame they get drowned out by the clown show.

National need a range of such new ideas across the political spectrum to mount a comeback with voter support.

Labour made up a series of ridiculous fairy tales and largely got voted in off the back of the fact Governments don't tend to last more than 3 terms in NZ, combined with Jacinda's popularity and Winstons grudge against National.

After C19, and what is likely to be crippling inflation, the next change of Government will likely be off the back of similar <4 terms, and whoever comes in will almost certainly need to make lots of unpopular decisions like reduction in spending, probably an increase in taxation etc (and there is a pretty decent chance that happens next term regardless).

There is no free lunch, C19 costs will be worn by the next generation and potentially the one after that.

I don't see any incoming Government being able to 'do' much.

Neither National nor Labour are very popular in opposition for good reason.

However, I do feel that National needs to focus on policy a lot more than they do. They should be in rooms right now, looking at what C19 recovery looks like.

Rikkitic

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#2770883 3-Sep-2021 08:49

networkn:

Labour made up a series of ridiculous fairy tales and largely got voted in off the back of the fact Governments don't tend to last more than 3 terms in NZ, combined with Jacinda's popularity and Winstons grudge against National.

After C19, and what is likely to be crippling inflation, the next change of Government will likely be off the back of similar <4 terms, and whoever comes in will almost certainly need to make lots of unpopular decisions like reduction in spending, probably an increase in taxation etc (and there is a pretty decent chance that happens next term regardless).

There is no free lunch, C19 costs will be worn by the next generation and potentially the one after that.

I don't see any incoming Government being able to 'do' much.

Neither National nor Labour are very popular in opposition for good reason.

However, I do feel that National needs to focus on policy a lot more than they do. They should be in rooms right now, looking at what C19 recovery looks like.

Labour got voted in because of the enormous popular appeal of Jacinda Ardern. Those determined not to like her just can't seem to get that. She is a fantastic communicator. If Little had remained in charge Labour would have fallen into a black hole it probably never could have climbed out of.

If the next government is not Labour-led, it is more likely to be led by Act than National with the current people in charge.

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#2770912 3-Sep-2021 09:30

Rikkitic:

Labour got voted in because of the enormous popular appeal of Jacinda Ardern. Those determined not to like her just can't seem to get that. She is a fantastic communicator.

She was fantastic at communicating a whole bunch of policy that was effectively bait-and-switch and using it as a platform to attack a National government for inaction, only to get voted in and achieve even less.

Let's not for a second pretend that the fantastical policy promises of the 2017 election with almost zero media scrutiny of them (or their subsequent failures) didn't play a major part - it's easy to appeal to people when you're promising them everything under the sun.

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#2771032 3-Sep-2021 10:18

Rikkitic:

Labour got voted in because of the enormous popular appeal of Jacinda Ardern. Those determined not to like her just can't seem to get that. She is a fantastic communicator. If Little had remained in charge Labour would have fallen into a black hole it probably never could have climbed out of.

Without Winston's tantrum, she would be leader of the opposition at best, and probably not even that anymore (leader of the opposition isn't a position held for extended periods usually). For all the things that National are doing (wrong) right now, replay back through Labours 9 years of opposition, it's just pretty much the same in somewhat reverse.

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#2771104 3-Sep-2021 11:00

You folks who are so determined not to give her any credit for anything have a real blind spot here. Jacinda Ardern is a transformational character. She led Labour to the first ever complete majority under MMP. I am not arguing that her policies are correct, or even honest, just that she in herself is a history-changing individual, whether certain people like that or not.

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#2771111 3-Sep-2021 11:13

Rikkitic:

You folks who are so determined not to give her any credit for anything have a real blind spot here. Jacinda Ardern is a transformational character. She led Labour to the first ever complete majority under MMP. I am not arguing that her policies are correct, or even honest, just that she in herself is a history-changing individual, whether certain people like that or not.

Transformational? You are kidding?

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#2771115 3-Sep-2021 11:26

Rikkitic:

You folks who are so determined not to give her any credit for anything have a real blind spot here. Jacinda Ardern is a transformational character. She led Labour to the first ever complete majority under MMP.

...After three nation-changing crises. Even up until Covid, it was clear she was going to have a hard time defending their track record of almost total inaction over the previous term come the election. She was leading a third-term government that was getting by on announcements about announcements and tired inaction on any meaningful policy front before the end of the first term.

And realistically, beating the current National Party with an absolute majority is hardly the electoral king-hit many people want it to be.

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#2771170 3-Sep-2021 11:51

networkn:

Rikkitic:

You folks who are so determined not to give her any credit for anything have a real blind spot here. Jacinda Ardern is a transformational character. She led Labour to the first ever complete majority under MMP. I am not arguing that her policies are correct, or even honest, just that she in herself is a history-changing individual, whether certain people like that or not.

Transformational? You are kidding?

Just the fact she's not going around with a grumpy face and blaming everyone else is a change, isn't it?

Rikkitic

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#2771171 3-Sep-2021 11:52

networkn:

Transformational? You are kidding?

I thought that would get a rise out of you. But no, I am not kididng.

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Rikkitic

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#2771177 3-Sep-2021 12:03

GV27:

...After three nation-changing crises. Even up until Covid, it was clear she was going to have a hard time defending their track record of almost total inaction over the previous term come the election. She was leading a third-term government that was getting by on announcements about announcements and tired inaction on any meaningful policy front before the end of the first term.

And realistically, beating the current National Party with an absolute majority is hardly the electoral king-hit many people want it to be.

Who do you think has guided the nation through those crises, and done it rather well? I think she has been a bit busy lately and the first term doesn't count with Winston Peters tripping her up at every opportunity. And if she did so badly then, why did the country give her an overwhelming mandate?

Realistically, the fact that National has self-destructed takes nothing away from her achievement. She beat them fair and square.

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