What will happen to National now?

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#2822862 2-Dec-2021 07:45

GV27:
Handle9:

You sound exactly like a Labour supporter between 2008-2017. It was nationals incompetence that caused their collapse. Getting 25% of the vote is usually a pretty good sign you aren’t good at your job.

You're pulling yourself if you think the National Party is getting an easy ride from the media. They're getting more scrutiny than the government that has walked away from literally every flagship campaign promise they made.

Look at Stuff.co.nz right now - this is the lead story:

Luxon's property gains up $4.3m as National vows to tackle housing

Remind me, which party has been in power for four years now and is actually answerable for house prices increasing 40% in 12 months? Not the one you're seeing that headline about.

I won't pretend like National hasn't been a disaster from the second Bill English walked away from it, but this kind of attempt to tar the new leader of the opposition the second day after he takes office for something the government has failed to do something about is pretty transparent.

Where did I say they got an easy ride? I said they were useless which is true.

Luxon is almost unknown to the electorate. He’s given 5 less speeches in the house than he owns houses. Until he starts showing what he stands for the media will ask all sorts of questions. That’s what happens when your party has been a train smash for the last 3 years.

GV27

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#2822868 2-Dec-2021 07:57

Handle9:

Until he starts showing what he stands for the media will ask all sorts of questions. That’s what happens when your party has been a train smash for the last 3 years.

"All sorts of questions" being more scrutiny in two days than the current government has faced, despite having an absolute majority and being able to do anything they want about it?

The media is only interested in speaking 'truth to power' when it suits.

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#2822885 2-Dec-2021 08:16

GV27:
Handle9:

Until he starts showing what he stands for the media will ask all sorts of questions. That’s what happens when your party has been a train smash for the last 3 years.

"All sorts of questions" being more scrutiny in two days than the current government has faced, despite having an absolute majority and being able to do anything they want about it?

The media is only interested in speaking 'truth to power' when it suits.

Cry me a river. The party of personal responsibility can’t pull its self up by its boot straps and be ambitious for itself?

This is the party that just fired it’s own leader for attempting to kneecap another MP who had been white anting her. The same leader also created a story to get their most senior MP to resign a few months ago and had the disciple of a demented chihuahua.

When opposition MPs have done good work the media has covered it. Stanton and Willis have been particularly effective and gotten some very good press. Bishop was kneecapped by Collins chasing passing cars on a fair bit of the Covid stuff but has still been effective and generating media interest.

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#2822888 2-Dec-2021 08:20

At least Luxon is dropping that He Puapua discussion thing that was Judith's brainchild. What was that all about again anyway?

networkn

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#2822897 2-Dec-2021 08:32

Handle9:
Yeah ZB and the herald are a bunch of pinkos.

RNZ is somewhat more balanced but the NZHerald hasn't been right-leaning for a long time.

You can find 5 articles talking about Luxons property portfolio but try finding one critical of the Governments Covid response.

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#2822898 2-Dec-2021 08:32

Handle9:

When opposition MPs have done good work the media has covered it. Stanton and Willis have been particularly effective and gotten some very good press. Bishop was kneecapped by Collins chasing passing cars on a fair bit of the Covid stuff but has still been effective and generating media interest.

Again, not really anything to do with the point I'm making. Which is that National Party leaders have immediately faced more scrutiny than the current ministers who are failing in almost every area they campaigned on.

Look at the huge flap made over Muller's hat. It was a hat.

And it's Stanford, by the way. And again, more scrutiny of Luxon than the things Stanford and Bishop have been talking about.

I don't have a problem with the media holding a spotlight on National as it implodes, and that's a natural consequence of it, but at some point the policy failures of the actual, in-power Government are worth talking about with more urgency.

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#2822899 2-Dec-2021 08:32

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300467522/the-national-party-opted-for-predictable-christopher-luxon-over-changemaker-shane-reti

Interesting read and makes a lot of sense. Short story is that Reti is too smart, has too much real world knowledge of Kiwi's, wants to get work done, and is too nice. They say that political parties are defined by the leader. If so, Reti would probably have gained votes just by being chosen, as he is relatable to most Kiwi's.

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GV27

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#2822900 2-Dec-2021 08:33

quickymart:

At least Luxon is dropping that He Puapua discussion thing that was Judith's brainchild. What was that all about again anyway?

Culture wars garbage from overseas that we don't want, need or apparently care about, according to polls.

Hopefully they take the hint and focus on other stuff.

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#2822902 2-Dec-2021 08:38

tdgeek:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300467522/the-national-party-opted-for-predictable-christopher-luxon-over-changemaker-shane-reti

Interesting read and makes a lot of sense. Short story is that Reti is too smart, has too much real world knowledge of Kiwi's, wants to get work done, and is too nice. They say that political parties are defined by the leader. If so, Reti would probably have gained votes just by being chosen, as he is relatable to most Kiwi's.

I'd argue that he isn't particularly comfortable as a public speaker, and can do far more good for NZ in the engine room than fronting the press. All his attention would be spent as a public interface which is neither his strong suit nor his greatest place to contribute.

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#2822905 2-Dec-2021 08:40

networkn:
Handle9:
Yeah ZB and the herald are a bunch of pinkos.

RNZ is somewhat more balanced but the NZHerald hasn't been right-leaning for a long time.

You can find 5 articles talking about Luxons property portfolio but try finding one critical of the Governments Covid response.

You should look a bit harder. I think it’s the 6 headline on the front page of the herald site.

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#2822908 2-Dec-2021 08:42

networkn:
tdgeek:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300467522/the-national-party-opted-for-predictable-christopher-luxon-over-changemaker-shane-reti

Interesting read and makes a lot of sense. Short story is that Reti is too smart, has too much real world knowledge of Kiwi's, wants to get work done, and is too nice. They say that political parties are defined by the leader. If so, Reti would probably have gained votes just by being chosen, as he is relatable to most Kiwi's.

I'd argue that he isn't particularly comfortable as a public speaker, and can do far more good for NZ in the engine room than fronting the press. All his attention would be spent as a public interface which is neither his strong suit nor his greatest place to contribute.

The job of prime minister is to front the press and speak in public. It’s not something you can delegate.

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#2822911 2-Dec-2021 08:44

Handle9:

The job of prime minister is to front the press and speak in public. It’s not something you can delegate.

Exactly, so if it's not his strong suit and he can contribute better in other ways, it was the right decision for him not to be leader.

I expect Luxon will do OK in this regard.

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#2822915 2-Dec-2021 08:47

networkn:

tdgeek:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300467522/the-national-party-opted-for-predictable-christopher-luxon-over-changemaker-shane-reti

Interesting read and makes a lot of sense. Short story is that Reti is too smart, has too much real world knowledge of Kiwi's, wants to get work done, and is too nice. They say that political parties are defined by the leader. If so, Reti would probably have gained votes just by being chosen, as he is relatable to most Kiwi's.

I'd argue that he isn't particularly comfortable as a public speaker, and can do far more good for NZ in the engine room than fronting the press. All his attention would be spent as a public interface which is neither his strong suit nor his greatest place to contribute.

Yes, there is that for sure. Another way to look at it, is that a CEO doesn't "do" any work. Their strength is getting their underlings to do good work. Being a non politically aggressive person, Reti would IMO do all that very well. Unify the team. He would be managing the engine room, and any engines that were in his direct skillset, he would be involved. Management, unity, trust (to caucus and the population).

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#2822917 2-Dec-2021 08:53

networkn:

Handle9:

The job of prime minister is to front the press and speak in public. It’s not something you can delegate.

Exactly, so if it's not his strong suit and he can contribute better in other ways, it was the right decision for him not to be leader.

I expect Luxon will do OK in this regard.

True, but his 12+ hours a day on the job isn't 12+ hours reading speeches. Luxon will be great at reading speeches. Making decisions he will be totally relying on everyone else (and the alliances he has) due to his lack is political experience and being silent since he was "moved" into public life

(and the alliances he has) then takes us back to what has lead National to this situation in recent years.

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#2822922 2-Dec-2021 08:58

networkn:

Handle9:

The job of prime minister is to front the press and speak in public. It’s not something you can delegate.

Exactly, so if it's not his strong suit and he can contribute better in other ways, it was the right decision for him not to be leader.

I expect Luxon will do OK in this regard.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/political-leadership-not-the-best-medicine-for-dr-shane

(written last week, but still relevant).

When does Luxon release his cabinet placing/lineup? Does Simon Bridges get Finance? What will Luxon do with Collins? Will Muller still be retiring in 2023?
So many questions.

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