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GV27
5884 posts

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  #2891271 24-Mar-2022 11:09
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networkn:

 

Sure, when you slant the discussion like that it seems pretty much seems impossible, but there are other factors to take into account too. I would suggest there are plenty of things in a household these days you wouldn't have found in a potential home buyer from 20 years ago. Big screen TV's, multiple personal electronic devices, many costing hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of dollars, Netflix subscriptions, Sky, all sorts of things. Sure there might be some who don't have many or any of those things, but I'd suggest consumerism today isn't even on the same planetary league as what my wife parents went through to be able to afford their first home. 

 

Not sure I'd agree that people save harder now than they did when a single income serviced a mortgage. 

 

 

I guess the problem is at some point you run up against objective reality. I wish starter houses didn't require making 30 year gambles with hundreds of thousands of dollars of deposit at stake, but they do. 

 

Just like no matter what people want to say about modern consumer spending, there is no getting away from the objective reality that houses now cost much more relative to incomes than they used to. It's a fact. We're so far beyond what Demographia considers 'severely unaffordable' that I'm not even sure what the correct label here is. 

 

I'm not saying it was easy for people to do it before. I'm saying that it is empirically proven to be harder now. And frankly, experiences of decades ago aren't relevant. Food, fuel etc are all over the place. There were literally millions fewer people in NZ when the 1973 Oil Shock hit. You get the idea. 

 

With any luck, we'll get some headroom with a portion of large mortgages being inflated away, but that's contingent on Kiwi wages keeping up with inflation like they did for previous generations when interest rates rocketed. That might prove to be a heroic assumption given that Kiwi businesses had a hard time keeping up with bog standard 2% p.a inflation in the good times, and you're generally expected to switch jobs to get a better rate in many industries.

 

Apparently remote working is allowing a generation of mobile Kiwis to work into other timezones and to be paid market rates from other more competitive markets. That's a great outcome for them, but kind of telling that it's so preferable to working for local companies.




antonknee
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  #2892146 25-Mar-2022 16:27
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There's absolutely nothing slanted in what GV27 has stated. It's cold, hard, absolute fact and is the lived reality of tons of Kiwis now. No one is saying buying a house was ever easy, but there is absolutely no denying it's much harder and less affordable now (regardless of any spending on big screen TVs which can be had for $500, which is a rounding error on a $170k deposit).

 

To people who can't see that or accept that, I posit that you're either being deliberately obstinate, or you actually can't interpret basic facts and figures.


quickymart
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  #2892328 26-Mar-2022 07:57
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antonknee
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  #2892375 26-Mar-2022 14:08
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I think what annoys me most about Luxon is he's all polish and zero substance. Like he says the right things in the headline, but the moment you push him just a little bit you quickly see the veneer is (less than) skin deep. How the man ever got to be a CEO (although not a very good one based on the thoughts of Air New Zealanders or its investors) I have no clue, but at least being a politician makes sense for someone who is all style and no substance.


Varkk
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  #2893017 28-Mar-2022 10:36
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antonknee:

 

I think what annoys me most about Luxon is he's all polish and zero substance.

 

And for all that he isn't really all that polished. He keeps making unforced errors in his media appearances. Certainly puts his foot in his mouth more often than Collins did, but because he doesn't have her baggage seems to get away with it for now.


quickymart
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  #2893020 28-Mar-2022 10:48
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I personally still think he's kind of going through a honeymoon period with the media - which is to be expected, Judith had the same thing - but I predict eventually something big will happen and it will come to an abrupt end.


Jas777
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  #2893021 28-Mar-2022 10:48
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antonknee:

 

I think what annoys me most about Luxon is he's all polish and zero substance. Like he says the right things in the headline, but the moment you push him just a little bit you quickly see the veneer is (less than) skin deep. How the man ever got to be a CEO (although not a very good one based on the thoughts of Air New Zealanders or its investors) I have no clue, but at least being a politician makes sense for someone who is all style and no substance.

 

 

Bit like the current PM.


 
 
 

Shop now on Mighty Ape (affiliate link).
Rikkitic
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  #2893026 28-Mar-2022 10:59
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Jas777:

 

antonknee:

 

I think what annoys me most about Luxon is he's all polish and zero substance. Like he says the right things in the headline, but the moment you push him just a little bit you quickly see the veneer is (less than) skin deep. How the man ever got to be a CEO (although not a very good one based on the thoughts of Air New Zealanders or its investors) I have no clue, but at least being a politician makes sense for someone who is all style and no substance.

 

 

Bit like the current PM.

 

 

You mean the one who garnered international praise for the way she guided the country through a racist massacre and a deadly pandemic while still leading the government on everyday matters?

 

 

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


Jas777
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  #2893134 28-Mar-2022 13:44
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Rikkitic:

 

You mean the one who garnered international praise for the way she guided the country through a racist massacre and a deadly pandemic while still leading the government on everyday matters?

 

 

Yep. 

 

Had more advantages than most if not all other countries with the pandemic. Pretty easy to close borders when don't have land borders and closest country is 3+ hours by plane. She also didn't have 250 million people within a ferry ride or a uncontrollable border with 1000s and 1000s of people crossing it everyday.

 

What everyday matters has she done well in?

 

Violent crime is up, shootings every week in Auckland.

 

Rents are up.

 

Prices are up.

 

Housing affordability is down.

 

Education standards are dropping.

 

Though I will give you that she gave her mates in central Auckland and Wellington 8k of their next car purchase.

 

 


antonknee
1133 posts

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  #2893148 28-Mar-2022 13:51
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Jas777:

 

antonknee:

 

I think what annoys me most about Luxon is he's all polish and zero substance. Like he says the right things in the headline, but the moment you push him just a little bit you quickly see the veneer is (less than) skin deep. How the man ever got to be a CEO (although not a very good one based on the thoughts of Air New Zealanders or its investors) I have no clue, but at least being a politician makes sense for someone who is all style and no substance.

 

 

Bit like the current PM.

 

 

Ardern has bucketloads more substance and talent than Luxon for sure, full stop. However after 1.5 terms in government, I do think Ardern's veneer is wearing thin and revealing that there is actually a lot less substance than appeared at first. 


Rikkitic
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  #2893162 28-Mar-2022 14:15
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Jas777:

 

Though I will give you that she gave her mates in central Auckland and Wellington 8k of their next car purchase.

 

 

The other points can be argued but this one is just a typical petty cheap shot. It would be like me saying that Christopher Luxon makes me think of Humpty Dumpty.

 

 

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


jarledb
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  #2893201 28-Mar-2022 17:08
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Jas777:

 

Had more advantages than most if not all other countries with the pandemic. Pretty easy to close borders when don't have land borders and closest country is 3+ hours by plane.

 

 

And National was saying we should not shut down when it was happening.

 

Then after that, it seems, at every turn they have taken the opposite position from the Government instead of making up their own minds on what was the best policy.

 

 

Violent crime is up, shootings every week in Auckland.

 

 

Much of this, from my understanding, are criminals that have been returned to NZ from Australia. What would National have done about this if in power?

 

 

Rents are up.

 

 

Rents are up because the housing market is up. Have National suggested any policy that would have had house prices drop?

 

 

Prices are up.

 

 

This is happening all over the world. Don't think anything could have been done about this, unless you really want a more communist type regime with the Government setting prices.

 

I am 100% sure National would not have done anything that would have affected this problem.

 

 

Housing affordability is down.

 

 

I think Labour have done more to try to stem the housing market overheating than National would have done. Please tell me what policies you think National have to deal with this.

 

 

Though I will give you that she gave her mates in central Auckland and Wellington 8k of their next car purchase.

 

 

That was news to me. Are you saying the feebate scheme for electric cars are limited to mates of the prime minister in Auckland and Wellington? Please give me a source.

 

 





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GV27
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  #2893274 28-Mar-2022 21:05
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This would hold a lot more water if Labour hadn't made very specific promises around a lot of these issues in the lead up to getting elected, then attacked National for doing comparatively less about them, only to get into power and manage to do even less. At this point, it has little to do with what National would do and more to do with what Labour said they would do.

 

A lot of these things were exacerbated by Covid, but things like changing the RBNZ mandate to include employment considerations have definitely contributed to our local situation and house prices, as has there being almost no consequences for constantly overshooting the agreed inflation targets in the PTA. 

 

And as far as "Have National suggested any policies that would see house prices drop" - well, yea, the bi-partisan accord on housing and zoning reforms, which I think should count for something given that it's one of the few meaningful changes Labour have actually made.


GV27
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  #2893322 29-Mar-2022 06:18
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But to the bigger question relevant to the thread; do I think National would do anything about most of this stuff? A: Less and less with each passing day. 


sen8or
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  #2893355 29-Mar-2022 09:00
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I don't buy the "prices are up all over the world, it wasn't us" excuse. Governements all over the world have done exactly the same thing during this pandemic, printed money and dished it out like a lolly scramble. Printed money = inflationary pressure. They can't very well blame everyone else when they have done exactly the same thing.

 

Rents are up (in part) because our wealth hating Govt has loaded significant costs on the evil landlords. What did they expect when they took measures that would increase costs, landlords would simply go "oh okay, I guess I make enough money already, I'll happily pay more......." More poorly thought out legislation with quite foreseeable consequences that they were well aware of but chose to ignore.

 

 

 

 


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