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GV27
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  #2894617 31-Mar-2022 11:51
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Rikkitic:

 

She is carrying maximum debt at this time (and recently learned she could never have done what she did under the new regulations) but she is a millionaire on paper and has enough equity to protect herself even if the market collapsed. 

 

 

Unfortunately the fact that so many people have done this is the reason why loads of FHBs are not so lucky, and recent ones will find themselves underwater, despite only ever owning one house at any given time.

 

Like the rags-to-riches stories are great, but there comes a point where it stops working. We can't all just rent houses to each other, and the balance of affordability has swung so far away from what you can afford based on an ordinary wage that at some point you kind of have to call it for what it is - which is a zero-sum game at best. The only way people can win is if someone else loses, in some way.

 

Once you factor in the $5b+ going overseas in foreign bank profits per year, I'm not sure that even 'zero-sum' is correct. I wonder what NZ would be like if we had an extra $30b sloshing around the local economy for the last six or so years alone. 




tdgeek
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  #2894694 31-Mar-2022 12:47
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Yep. There is a difference between someone choosing a house to build assets and retirement security (while also providing rental accommodation to the population) than a person who is dead set on being rich. And using the tax system (dodgy expenses) and using/abusing the tenants so he can make another buck sooner. But often everyone who owns more than one property is cartegorised as an evil user. 


Varkk
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  #2894742 31-Mar-2022 13:07
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Rikkitic:

 

These are just two anecdotal examples I happen to know about. I personally think our tax system is pretty badly screwed up, but both of these people earned what they have, and worked bloody hard for it.

 

 

 

 

Cool, but what about the people who worked hard in normal jobs, doing overtime when they could maybe saving away what money they could in savings accounts or term deposits? They have worked hard for it as well and pay tax on it each step of the way.




Rikkitic
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  #2894827 31-Mar-2022 15:32
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Varkk:

 

Rikkitic:

 

These are just two anecdotal examples I happen to know about. I personally think our tax system is pretty badly screwed up, but both of these people earned what they have, and worked bloody hard for it.

 

 

 

 

Cool, but what about the people who worked hard in normal jobs, doing overtime when they could maybe saving away what money they could in savings accounts or term deposits? They have worked hard for it as well and pay tax on it each step of the way.

 

 

Why ask me? I said I wasn't pushing an agenda, just relating a couple of anecdotal accounts I happen to know about. If you want to argue the unfairness of it all, take it to the responsible authorities.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


sen8or
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  #2894850 31-Mar-2022 16:50
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It seems perfectly acceptable to lump landlords together as greedy capitalist's, but lump beneficiaries together as lazy no hopers? Nope, thats beneficiary bashing (and rightly so with such a broad statement).

 

All this is entertaining enough, but seems to be wandering away from the topic of what should National do and genuine political discussion / debate.

 

I actually don't think our tax system is that bad, there are few avenues to legitimately avoid tax (not evade, thats illegal) and at best, some strategies just delay the inevitable.

 

Consumption tax (GST) applied across the board at an equal rate makes compliance easy and cheap. The moment you start messing with this, it will lead to potentially significant consequences (cost of systems to be compliant, cost of administering etc will all be passed on, not to mention the stupidity of it at a practical level like they had in Aus - cooked vs uncooked chicken etc), prices may decline for a short period, but since when have our 2 major chains being focussed on doing the right thing by the consumer? Prices will rise within about 2 news cycles and any savings gone.

 

The brightline test captures all property investment (speculators and investors), discouraging at least the casual house flippers (although with the profits that can still be made in a hot market, even paying tax on the profit may not discourage some) and given all property settlements go through lawyers who have to complete all the compliance paperwork (incl anti money laundering and IRD / Brightline docs, it would seem all but impossible to avoid).

 

Tax brackets need to move, the minimum wage is now bordering on the middle income earners tax bracket, thats fundamentally wrong. If they really wanted to keep those earning above average wage (say in the 2nd to top tax bracket) from receiving too much of the benefit of the shift, they could do a tweak to tax rates (from say 30c to 30.5 - 31 etc) on income over the new level. That way, the shifting of the tax brackets benefits mostly those in the lower end of the scale, those in the upper end are tax neutral (or marginally worse depending on how wide the band is and its effect). Would I be happy to pay less tax, for sure, do I need an extra 5-800 a year (or whatever the figure works out at), probably not at this point, but I accept that there are plenty who do.


quickymart
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  #2894858 31-Mar-2022 17:07
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gzt

gzt
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  #2894921 31-Mar-2022 18:55
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Good to see that being sorted out. Luxon had a few words about Will Smith slapping memes too:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/oscars-attack-national-party-share-will-smith-memes-before-deleting/JM4UKVHBZ33DC2VHXD7FPEKTBQ/

 
 
 

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GV27
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  #2894946 31-Mar-2022 19:53
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sen8or:

 

Tax brackets need to move, the minimum wage is now bordering on the middle income earners tax bracket, thats fundamentally wrong. If they really wanted to keep those earning above average wage (say in the 2nd to top tax bracket) from receiving too much of the benefit of the shift, they could do a tweak to tax rates (from say 30c to 30.5 - 31 etc) on income over the new level. That way, the shifting of the tax brackets benefits mostly those in the lower end of the scale, those in the upper end are tax neutral (or marginally worse depending on how wide the band is and its effect). Would I be happy to pay less tax, for sure, do I need an extra 5-800 a year (or whatever the figure works out at), probably not at this point, but I accept that there are plenty who do.

 

 

This is such a slam dunk it's not funny, but I get the feeling the government books are balanced specifically with the inflation component of earnings in mind as it's a big money-earner as people get caught by higher and higher upper brackets. So there's not a stack of motivation for politicians who want the cred for getting back to surplus for their fiscal management chops.

 

It also irks me there's no individual RWT-free threshold for interest, given how pathetically low TD earnings are in a low-rate environments. Allowing savers to keep more of whatever pathetic gains they get out of TDs would be a step in the right direction, and make saving a little more attractive relative to property.


elpenguino
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  #2894960 31-Mar-2022 20:48
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quickymart:

 

To his credit, at least Luxon got onto this reasonably quickly:

 

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/national-investigating-online-trolling-linked-to-young-nat-s-house.html

 

 

 

 

Yes and he probably had to get the 'alleged' offender to change his tune  ( from it was my flatmates ! to ahhhh, I'm really sorry) in order to stop the affair being dragged out  - although if a court case ensues, this issue will smoulder for a while yet.

 

It's very sad that people play the whaleoil game instead of sticking to the issues.

 

Personally, I hope he gets raked over the coals in front of a judge.





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


quickymart
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  #2902192 14-Apr-2022 08:04
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https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/04/support-for-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-among-small-businesses-drops-15-points-as-national-s-christopher-luxon-soars.html

 

I don't get this part. The Government has already opened up the borders and is gradually loosening restrictions. What would Luxon do differently that makes small businesses love him so much?


tdgeek
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  #2902194 14-Apr-2022 08:13
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quickymart:

 

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/04/support-for-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-among-small-businesses-drops-15-points-as-national-s-christopher-luxon-soars.html

 

I don't get this part. The Government has already opened up the borders and is gradually loosening restrictions. What would Luxon do differently that makes small businesses love him so much?

 

 

Ignore health outcomes and just focus on business outcomes?. If the former failed, that will drag down businesses anyway. Its about a fine line to minimise the effect on both, but throughout this pandemic, from March 26 2020, the focus has been on health which apparently has always been a problem. When we locked down Nats would have done it sooner, but two weeks later "its too much, its too long" so you can't really win


quickymart
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  #2902195 14-Apr-2022 08:35
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Also there was the whole "just open up the borders" from them when Muller was running the show - again, ignoring the health side of things in favour of business first.


tdgeek
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  #2902212 14-Apr-2022 08:48
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quickymart:

 

Also there was the whole "just open up the borders" from them when Muller was running the show - again, ignoring the health side of things in favour of business first.

 

 

Yep. We dont really know what was ideal as regards restrictions vs opening up (borders and local), all countries ran by the seat of the pants and crossed fingers. Its worked out ok here, less than ok elsewhere, so while no one can be blamed for arguing health or arguing economy as no one knew the future outcomes, it seems to have worked well enough for NZ


networkn
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  #2902283 14-Apr-2022 10:40
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Opposition opposes. As has been pointed out previously, given who would have been in charge if National had won the election, and presented with the same information the government was, the plan for dealing with Covid under National would almost certainly have largely been similar. It may have had components that made it more 'business' friendly possibly, and somethings may have been the same, some worse and some better.  There was a LOT that could have been done better in the response and if you don't think we got unbelievably lucky on a number of occasions, then I am not sure what to tell you. 

 

 


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