What will happen to National now?

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Awrrr
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#2940671 11-Jul-2022 12:03

Quote of the day: "They've been in power for 47 of the last 72 years. If the National Party were the solution to any problem, we wouldn't have that problem now." - David Seymour

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

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#2940672 11-Jul-2022 12:11

Rikkitic:

Quote of the day: "They've been in power for 47 of the last 72 years. If the National Party were the solution to any problem, we wouldn't have that problem now." - David Seymour

I guess that's true of Labour too then, surely 25 years is enough time to fix any problem?

elpenguino

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#2940675 11-Jul-2022 12:31

When ACT forms a coalition with Labour, that retort might actually be relevant.

The big question for National with their return from the dead is - who will they partner with? None of their previous coalition partners are looking promising.

Or will we see another simple majority government?

Polish your crystal balls .... now.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

networkn

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#2940684 11-Jul-2022 13:03

I still maintain that there could be merit in a National Greens coalition, though unfortunately due to the far left side of the Greens party, it will never happen.

sen8or

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#2940685 11-Jul-2022 13:03

elpenguino:

When ACT forms a coalition with Labour, that retort might actually be relevant.

Has hell frozen over recently? Can't imagine that coalition before then...

sen8or

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#2940686 11-Jul-2022 13:05

networkn:

I still maintain that there could be merit in a National Greens coalition, though unfortunately due to the far left side of the Greens party, it will never happen.

If the greens were truly green, they'd partner with any party to push the environmental issues. They aren't so they don't

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#2940687 11-Jul-2022 13:08

sen8or:

If the greens were truly green, they'd partner with any party to push the environmental issues. They aren't so they don't

Yeah, it's weird, the Greens have two basic groups, those who are in for the environment, and a group who are focused on social stuff. The weird thing is, the social stuff directly conflicts with the environmental stuff.

It still makes me laugh when I recall the Greens minister to who posted online that she was riding to the hospital because it was good for the planet, instead of taking a car...

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elpenguino

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#2940690 11-Jul-2022 13:18

Hey guys, remember you tried this green-blue thing some time ago and it was going to be the best thing ever. Remember how many voters went for it?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

gzt

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#2940716 11-Jul-2022 14:33

networkn: I still maintain that there could be merit in a National Greens coalition, though unfortunately due to the far left side of the Greens party, it will never happen.

You seem to be forgetting this actually happened in practice. There's no real reason it could not happen again.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/national-welcomes-working-relationship-greens

sen8or

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#2940727 11-Jul-2022 14:58

Was it that they were less extreme in 2009 than they are now? Where common sense and/or pragmatism wasn't overruled by idealogy?

I think with Jeanette Fitzsimmons, she was certainly more green than red, not sure who in the greens is that way now.

Perhaps the left side of the greens is a left-over from there no longer being Jim Andertons party where the real left used to be. They couldn't migrate to labour who were only slightly left of centre so the Greens grew in strength on the back of that gap in the market.

elpenguino

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#2940742 11-Jul-2022 15:54

sen8or:

Was it that they were less extreme in 2009 than they are now? Where common sense and/or pragmatism wasn't overruled by idealogy?

I think with Jeanette Fitzsimmons, she was certainly more green than red, not sure who in the greens is that way now.

Perhaps the left side of the greens is a left-over from there no longer being Jim Andertons party where the real left used to be. They couldn't migrate to labour who were only slightly left of centre so the Greens grew in strength on the back of that gap in the market.

Are national voters even that bothered about the environment? Enough to vote green ? I remember john key was 'relaxed' about how little he did on the climate change issue when he was in power.

FFS One of the first things he did after the election was reverse the upcoming ban on incandescent light bulbs.

The only reason there's been any shift in national policy in the last few years is their polling has picked up that climate change is becoming an issue for much of the electorate.

National will certainly alienate their rural base if they do anything to materially reduce carbon emissions and this is a big problem for them. If they alienate their rural base, they're just another party 'for the urban elite with their flat whites'.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2940746 11-Jul-2022 16:06

elpenguino:

Are national voters even that bothered about the environment? Enough to vote green ? I remember john key was 'relaxed' about how little he did on the climate change issue when he was in power.

FFS One of the first things he did after the election was reverse the upcoming ban on incandescent light bulbs.

The only reason there's been any shift in national policy in the last few years is their polling has picked up that climate change is becoming an issue for much of the electorate.

National will certainly alienate their rural base if they do anything to materially reduce carbon emissions and this is a big problem for them. If they alienate their rural base, they're just another party 'for the urban elite with their flat whites'.

ROFL.

How do you think most politicians work? Including left-leaning ones? They get feedback from the voters. Stop acting like half the parties act on morals and ideals alone.

Good Grief.

elpenguino

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#2940749 11-Jul-2022 16:09

networkn:

elpenguino:

Are national voters even that bothered about the environment? Enough to vote green ? I remember john key was 'relaxed' about how little he did on the climate change issue when he was in power.

FFS One of the first things he did after the election was reverse the upcoming ban on incandescent light bulbs.

The only reason there's been any shift in national policy in the last few years is their polling has picked up that climate change is becoming an issue for much of the electorate.

National will certainly alienate their rural base if they do anything to materially reduce carbon emissions and this is a big problem for them. If they alienate their rural base, they're just another party 'for the urban elite with their flat whites'.

ROFL.

How do you think most politicians work? Including left-leaning ones? They get feedback from the voters. Stop acting like half the parties act on morals and ideals alone.

Good Grief.

So you wanted to say something without answering the question.

The question remains - are national voters bothered about the environment?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2940755 11-Jul-2022 16:14

elpenguino:

So you wanted to say something without answering the question.

The question remains - are national voters bothered about the environment?

Are Greens voters concerned about the environment? After all, to get into power, they agreed to basically be the silent partner in 2017, despite holding the same amount of control as NZF, they got barely anything, but gave up a key policy which was to institute the Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary?

Just like Labour voters, there will be some who care about the environment, more than others.

I'd be open to a coalition with the Greens, and I am (usually) a National voter. I believe that more environmentally National Government benefits everyone. The problem for me with the Greens, is that their social policy is pretty much in direct violation of their ecologically focused ideals. There has long been murmurings of the Green party splitting into two, so each can represent it's own values, though in the short term, I'd expect the Social Party would disappear entirely.

It's a stupid trolly question in the first place.

sen8or

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#2940760 11-Jul-2022 16:25

I don't think its that National voters aren't worried about the environment, its more that they understand that until there is a viable alternative that continues to generate economic activity on a large scale, that actions and policies need to be tempered with common sense / pragmatism. I think you'll find the vast majority of farmers for example care more for sustainability than an urbanite with their flat white.

Stop dairying and save the planet, sure, whats going to replace that income right now? What about the flow on effect to that other by-product of farming, food? should we forgo that too?

And lets keep our actual true impact on climate change in the context of the global problem, reducing our 0.03% or so that we currently contribute is hardly going to save the planet and aside from wholesale virtue signaling to the world "look how good we are", its like pissing into the wind.

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