What will happen to National now?

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Forums › Politics › What will happen to National now?

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Awrrr
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#2952326 9-Aug-2022 08:59

quickymart:

Except for the fact that he waited until he wanted to get into politics, then suddenly decided (22 years later) he should apologise? And because it was a long time ago it means nothing? Obviously not to the poor guy he set upon. Hell, I was 16 once too but I don't remember wanting to take to someone with bed legs and beating them up when I was at high school - and I went to high school with some really nasty people.

But because it wasn't either of you two, I guess it's all good, right?

As someone who also endured constant bullying at high school, trust me, this crap takes a long time to go away, if at all - something even Nicola Willis alludes to here: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-party-leadership-learned-of-tauranga-mp-sam-uffindells-dormitory-attack-yesterday-nicola-willis/PQQ2MI3SRZPFJ5GL5SZR4EP4MA/

I'm more concerned that neither herself nor Luxon knew about this until yesterday.

This I think says it quite well. It is not a Labour beat-up, but a National failing. As has been pointed out, he is just the latest in a long line of poor candidate choices. Of course the right-wing brigade here is going to jump on it. That doesn't make it go away.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

itxtme

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#2952331 9-Aug-2022 09:20

JPNZ:

100% this, should everyone that does some bullying at 16 years old be hung out to dry the same way?

IMO 16 year olds do dumb stuff, we can’t go around crucifying them for the rest of their lives. It turns out he came back to New Zealand after however long he was working overseas, looked the guy up and went and apologised again for what he had done.

Lets just consider the facts for a second

- It was an assault, not bullying - it would serve you well not to confuse the two. If you or I had done that you would be arrested and convicted. Those boys should have been put through the system in regards to police being involved. (Especially if the use of bed legs is true!)

- His apology directly correlated with his run in politics - this is just fact.

- The victim is the one who has pushed this as he has grievance with what he considers a false apology, given the politician did not mention his desire to be publicly facing. You can surely understand why this seems somewhat self-serving as opposed to sincere

- His general narrative is tough on crime, which is ironic given the sweetheart deal he got via his school. I have no doubt this has particularly upset the victim.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#2952332 9-Aug-2022 09:30

itxtme:

Lets just consider the facts for a second

- It was an assault, not bullying - it would serve you well not to confuse the two. If you or I had done that you would be arrested and convicted. Those boys should have been put through the system in regards to police being involved. (Especially if the use of bed legs is true!)

- His apology directly correlated with his run in politics - this is just fact.

- The victim is the one who has pushed this as he has grievance with what he considers a false apology, given the politician did not mention his desire to be publicly facing. You can surely understand why this seems somewhat self-serving as opposed to sincere

- His general narrative is tough on crime, which is ironic given the sweetheart deal he got via his school. I have no doubt this has particularly upset the victim.

Quoted For Truth!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

elpenguino

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#2952335 9-Aug-2022 09:41

itxtme:

- His general narrative is tough on crime, which is ironic given the sweetheart deal he got via his school. I have no doubt this has particularly upset the victim.

The wits in the house and the cartoonists will have a field day with this.

'can you be tough on crime mr uffindell?'

'I can be tough on a defenceless 13 year old, does that count?'

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

jarledb

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#2952339 9-Aug-2022 09:56

Poor Mr. Uffindel: "I carried this as a burden".

If it was such a burden it is strange that he didn't do anything about it until he wanted into politics.

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elpenguino

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#2952340 9-Aug-2022 10:03

jarledb:

Poor Mr. Uffindel: "I carried this as a burden".

If it was such a burden it is strange that he didn't do anything about it until he wanted into politics.

Yep - I urge readers to note in his response to the media how often he mentions himself, and how many times he mentions the person he assaulted.

His apology was calculated and self-serving.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

GV27

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#2952341 9-Aug-2022 10:05

Self-reflection is free, you can do it at any time, you don't have to wait until you want to enter national politics to try and you can reach out to people you may have been a dickhead to if you feel that might offer them something.

Generally the test is whether you really think it would benefit them more than it would benefit you to do so.

I remain cynical in this case.

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networkn

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#2952401 9-Aug-2022 11:09

If things we do when we are 16 (or in general), are to be held against us our whole lives, then we may as well execute anyone who commits a crime or makes a serious mistake as of no potential value ever again. What he did was horrible, the question is, does he continue to behave or hold the views that led him to that place? You'll find this view is not my view of National members alone, but my view in general, for those who will almost certainly try and colour things in that manner.

networkn

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#2952403 9-Aug-2022 11:10

itxtme:

- His general narrative is tough on crime, which is ironic given the sweetheart deal he got via his school. I have no doubt this has particularly upset the victim.

You can also be tough on crime and recognize there is a place for leniency, and give people a second chance. The justice system makes this distinction all day every day.

elpenguino

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#2952405 9-Aug-2022 11:19

networkn:

If things we do when we are 16 (or in general), are to be held against us our whole lives, then we may as well execute anyone who commits a crime or makes a serious mistake as of no potential value ever again. What he did was horrible, the question is, does he continue to behave or hold the views that led him to that place? You'll find this view is not my view of National members alone, but my view in general, for those who will almost certainly try and colour things in that manner.

Indeed. People deserve a second chance. Yes, he was only a child.

The incident gives us a window into him and his character though doesn't it. What we can surmise is he was a rich kid/spoilt brat who thought a gang assault on a younger child was , and he used this word in the article , 'fun'.

But, that was then and this is now. Now he's an adult, and therefore responsible for his actions, and now we know he makes a false and convenient apology to clear the air before his run at politics. This gives us another window into his character.

Is this the type of character we want in people representing us? I don't.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

GV27

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#2952406 9-Aug-2022 11:19

networkn:

If things we do when we are 16 (or in general), are to be held against us our whole lives, then we may as well execute anyone who commits a crime or makes a serious mistake as of no potential value ever again. What he did was horrible, the question is, does he continue to behave or hold the views that led him to that place? You'll find this view is not my view of National members alone, but my view in general, for those who will almost certainly try and colour things in that manner.

If it's an unreasonably long time to hold something against someone then why wait right up until you decide to stand for office to get in touch with the guy.

quickymart

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#2952422 9-Aug-2022 11:33

networkn:

If things we do when we are 16 (or in general), are to be held against us our whole lives, then we may as well execute anyone who commits a crime or makes a serious mistake as of no potential value ever again. What he did was horrible, the question is, does he continue to behave or hold the views that led him to that place? You'll find this view is not my view of National members alone, but my view in general, for those who will almost certainly try and colour things in that manner.

I agree with you to a point - but my personal issue is why did he wait 22 years to do something about it? It feels (to me, anyway) like he just woke up one morning, decided to become a politician, and then remembered, "oh crap, I'd better apologise to that kid I beat up years ago". Of note, he did not mention his political aspirations to this person, nor did he mention that he had done what he did during debates, nor did he tell Luxon or Willis, until it all came out.

That's what irks me. It feels (to me) like he only apologised for what he did when it became apparent that he needed to do something about it.

networkn

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#2952423 9-Aug-2022 11:35

elpenguino:

The incident gives us a window into him and his character though doesn't it. What we can surmise is he was a rich kid/spoilt brat who thought a gang assault on a younger child was , and he used this word in the article , 'fun'.

It *may* give some insight into how he was *then*.

itxtme

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#2952427 9-Aug-2022 11:41

networkn:

You can also be tough on crime and recognize there is a place for leniency, and give people a second chance. The justice system makes this distinction all day every day.

Absolutely, and thats why he should have gone through the system back then, thats what true responsibility for actions is. Luxon is now saying categorically voters should have been aware of it, not swept under the rug, yet it was decided to not mention it. He was asked what his biggest regret was during the bi-election, and this part of his history was never mentioned...

not coming back to New Zealand sooner, there's nowhere we would rather raise our kids

{vomit}

quickymart

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#2952428 9-Aug-2022 11:45

networkn:

elpenguino:

The incident gives us a window into him and his character though doesn't it. What we can surmise is he was a rich kid/spoilt brat who thought a gang assault on a younger child was , and he used this word in the article , 'fun'.

It *may* give some insight into how he was *then*.

I agree with you, but now it makes him look (to me, anyway) as devious - trying to delay talking about this until it all came out. Why weren't voters told? Why didn't Luxon know beforehand? Why didn't he say something during the selection process, to the voters? He even admits it himself: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/national-party-schoolboy-assault-mp-sam-uffindell-speaks-with-leader-christopher-luxon-after-schoolboy-assault-revealed/YE4V74V5ZJUQRM3KSUKNIWZSTE/

Uffindell had used his maiden speech to Parliament to champion law and order – asked today if he was a hypocrite, he said: "It's an awful look, all I can do is apologise for what I've done."

Asked why he hadn't come clean earlier, he said in hindsight that should have happened. He said he could have been "more forthcoming" about the incident during the Tauranga by-election campaign that he won.

It's not a good look.

I'm sure this will all blow over eventually, but after their previous candidate selection issues, I can see why some people are skeptical.

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