What will happen to National now?

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Networkn
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#2952445 9-Aug-2022 12:09

itxtme:

Absolutely, and thats why he should have gone through the system back then, thats what true responsibility for actions is. Luxon is now saying categorically voters should have been aware of it, not swept under the rug, yet it was decided to not mention it. He was asked what his biggest regret was during the bi-election, and this part of his history was never mentioned...

It's not his fault he did not go through the system back then. You'd have to take that up with the adults who made that decision at the time.

Not sure I'd have taken the exact opportunity to mention something like this in response to that question either. I think I either would have deflected it, and then come back to it as a separate thing, to talk about it, answer the inevitable questions that came up. I certainly would have done so though.

I agree with Luxon, it's the sort of thing voters should have been made aware of. He's made things a lot worse for himself as a result of how he handled it.

itxtme

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#2952448 9-Aug-2022 12:19

networkn:

It *may* give some insight into how he was *then*.

That quotes not going to age well Networkn, from his press conference

At high school I wasn't a great person at all. There will be other instances where I've hurt people one way or another, and I just want to be perfectly clear that that may come around

I personally dont want an MP to represent me that has a recidivist history of bullying (and who knows if there were other assaults). Especially one that hid those things from the very people that voted him in. There are actions for life choices, you do not get a free pass. Lets see how much more comes out about his behaviour, but this may well be an untenable position.

GV27

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#2952454 9-Aug-2022 12:33

I was a bit of a loose unit growing up and I have come to accept that's going to be a thing for me as long as I live. It's just going to be something I have to work at. I can empathise with people with a similar background seeking office who have stuff hanging over them but fear of it becoming public knowledge.

But I can't get my head around not taking the opportunity to revisit some of this stuff well before you get anywhere near public office. I've reached out to people I was a jerk to, because it was the right thing to do.

So IDK, on the one hand I can understand the argument that we not hold things young men do in their youth against them forever. That's probably a discussion worth having at some point. I just feel like you either own it or you don't.

ezbee

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#2952456 9-Aug-2022 12:40

Don't know who else was competing for selection.
However they may have been at a disadvantage if their backgrounds were known and his not.

Its not like there may have been worthy people who were sidelined that deserved a chance.

As far as forgiveness etc.
Well there are plenty of things he can do besides high public office.

There are apologies and then there are apologies.
From the description, beating someone with wooden bed legs, these are substantial hard objects.
I can imagine such violence could be life changing for the victim.
Basically a short baton, like your fists are no longer good enough, and thats bad enough ?
This is substantial violence being hand waved away.
This also seems to be described as part of a history of violence to others of time, not a one off.

Perhaps on changing and realizing you want to serve the community in office.
Well come clean do some service re anti bullying programs to help others.
The respect you gain may then make you fit to compete for office openly.

I remember the dirty campaign against an Indian National candidate for Auckland Central that seemed to have senior party backing if not participation.
National seems to have a problem with open honest candidate selections.

GV27

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#2952462 9-Aug-2022 12:57

ezbee:

I remember the dirty campaign against an Indian National candidate for Auckland Central that seemed to have senior party backing if not participation.

National seems to have a problem with open honest candidate selections.

You mean the candidate who had already been selected for another seat but wanted to switch to Auckland Central when Nikki Kaye's more winnable seat became up for grabs?

Yea, that one is a lot more complicated than just writing it off as a racial thing, sorry, as easy as that might make to digest.

quickymart

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#2952471 9-Aug-2022 13:21

ezbee:

Don't know who else was competing for selection.
However they may have been at a disadvantage if their backgrounds were known and his not.

There were 4 National party contenders in the end: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/tauranga-byelection-top-four-national-contenders-to-replace-simon-bridges-named/YZZL32E7VQNFUED6XIZF6ACVXE/

gzt

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#2952473 9-Aug-2022 13:31

On the plus side I was impressed Kings College expelled all those involved.

One can only hope Kings has continued that kind of policy consistently to this day.

Boarding schools generally were notorious for this kind of thing. Including something called "fagging" which forcefully required one or more nominated younger pupils to obey demands from participating senior pupils. These demands could be as simple as "get me a cup of milo" with punishment for non-compliance and obvious potential for horror and escalation.

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Rikkitic

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#2952655 9-Aug-2022 17:50

In other cases where something has come out about an MP's past, other things have also often emerged after a time. It might be better to reserve judgement until there is more certainty that no other skeletons are lurking in the shadows. This fellow's assurances don't carry a whole lot of credibility right now. He was an admitted bully and at least on one occasion a violent thug in his adolescence. Of course people can learn from their mistakes and change, but those he represents deserve more than just his word that he has undergone such a transformation. It is not unusual for 16 year-olds to get into fights. It is less common for them to assault helpless younger children with weapons while they are sleeping. I find that more than a little disturbing.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#2952659 9-Aug-2022 18:04

Im not an ACT fan, but this is relevant, and ironic that ACT are doing well

https://www.stuff.co.nz/bay-of-plenty/129523116/act-byelection-candidate-calls-for-national-party-to-apologise-to-tauranga-voters

antonknee

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#2952660 9-Aug-2022 18:10

networkn:
If things we do when we are 16 (or in general), are to be held against us our whole lives, then we may as well execute anyone who commits a crime or makes a serious mistake as of no potential value ever again. What he did was horrible, the question is, does he continue to behave or hold the views that led him to that place? You'll find this view is not my view of National members alone, but my view in general, for those who will almost certainly try and colour things in that manner.

I believe in second chances, for people who genuinely feel remorseful and make amends. Uffindell has done neither. He’s also a massive hypocrite, given he used his maiden speech to talk about how we’re soft on crime and young offenders ought to be punished hard. Aand anyway, since when does tough on crime National believe in restorative justice and second chances?

His original apology - self serving, timed for his political gain. Even his victim doesn’t feel it was genuine.
The way he talks about it now - deflecting, minimising, “boys will be boys”, “I paid the price already”.
He says he has thought about this incident everyday since it happened - yet he can’t remember if he used weapons? He can’t remember how many other incidents like this he was involved in?

Let’s not forget he, as part of a gang of others, used improvised weapons to viciously assault and injure a sleeping child, on the last day. This was cold, calculated, planned. It’s also not the sort of assault one general does as a first timer.

He’s only sorry it makes him look bad. This could have been a golden political opportunity - if it had been embraced and dealt with head on. Instead, they tried to cover it up and make it go away.

He should resign. Not solely because of what he did (as abhorrent as that is), but because he’s a hypocrite and because it’s obvious (to me at least) his remorse is not genuine.

elpenguino

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#2952666 9-Aug-2022 18:19

Unfortunately hypocrisy is all too common.

We've had senior national people lecturing us about parenting in the media recently. I'm waiting for the media to find out which one had their child expelled for bullying.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

tdgeek

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#2952668 9-Aug-2022 18:25

antonknee:

I believe in second chances, for people who genuinely feel remorseful and make amends. Uffindell has done neither. He’s also a massive hypocrite, given he used his maiden speech to talk about how we’re soft on crime and young offenders ought to be punished hard. Aand anyway, since when does tough on crime National believe in restorative justice and second chances?

His original apology - self serving, timed for his political gain. Even his victim doesn’t feel it was genuine.
The way he talks about it now - deflecting, minimising, “boys will be boys”, “I paid the price already”.
He says he has thought about this incident everyday since it happened - yet he can’t remember if he used weapons? He can’t remember how many other incidents like this he was involved in?

Let’s not forget he, as part of a gang of others, used improvised weapons to viciously assault and injure a sleeping child, on the last day. This was cold, calculated, planned. It’s also not the sort of assault one general does as a first timer.

He’s only sorry it makes him look bad. This could have been a golden political opportunity - if it had been embraced and dealt with head on. Instead, they tried to cover it up and make it go away.

He should resign. Not solely because of what he did (as abhorrent as that is), but because he’s a hypocrite and because it’s obvious (to me at least) his remorse is not genuine.

Like what I alluded to, if he joined public life and owned it (yes a cliche), people like honesty. Poor adolescent behaviour is common. Although his is relatively extreme. But if you own up, thats being a man. Too often we see hidden secrets exposed "It was a mistake, I will learn from it" BS, the mistake was being caught. I see this with politics, actors, sportsmen. It's BS. Now if that was minor, thats a different issue, kids will be kids, but the context is serious, how does that evolve as an adult?

tdgeek

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#2952669 9-Aug-2022 18:30

Ironically this is not politics, its real life. I once worked where the Warehouse Manager was interviewing applicants. One said he was a crim. He wanted a chance, he got the job and did well

That is the difference, manning up, opening up, owning it. And in my example, it worked out well. No one cares if you stole flowers from grannies on the zebra crossing. They do care if you lie.

antonknee

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#2952674 9-Aug-2022 18:41

tdgeek:
Like what I alluded to, if he joined public life and owned it (yes a cliche), people like honesty. Poor adolescent behaviour is common. Although his is relatively extreme. But if you own up, thats being a man. Too often we see hidden secrets exposed "It was a mistake, I will learn from it" BS, the mistake was being caught. I see this with politics, actors, sportsmen. It's BS. Now if that was minor, thats a different issue, kids will be kids, but the context is serious, how does that evolve as an adult?

Exactly. He probably could have even played the boys will be boys/product of our time card, if he’d apologised earlier than right before his entry to politics.

You’re right though - Who among us hasn’t done things we regret as a teen? I didn’t viciously assault a child while he slept, but I certainly did things that I regret and that wouldn’t pass the sniff test.

Moreover he should have turned this into a political positive. Bullying and youth crime are huge issues. How powerful would it be if he admitted to his past and said “yup I was a bully at school and a criminal in my youth, I know how badly that impacted my victim and myself. That kind of hurt shouldn’t happen to anyone. Here’s some policy on bullying and youth crime and justice, which I am going to personally champion because of how much this issue has effected me and how important it is to me and my mana. “

To me, that’s something someone who was genuinely remorseful and wanted to effect positive change (and actually be tough on crime) would do. Not try to minimise, hide, evade, and deflect it, call it a “mistake”.

tdgeek

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#2952675 9-Aug-2022 18:48

antonknee:

Exactly. He probably could have even played the boys will be boys/product of our time card, if he’d apologised earlier than right before his entry to politics.

You’re right though - Who among us hasn’t done things we regret as a teen? I didn’t viciously assault a child while he slept, but I certainly did things that I regret and that wouldn’t pass the sniff test.

Moreover he should have turned this into a political positive. Bullying and youth crime are huge issues. How powerful would it be if he admitted to his past and said “yup I was a bully at school and a criminal in my youth, I know how badly that impacted my victim and myself. That kind of hurt shouldn’t happen to anyone. Here’s some policy on bullying and youth crime and justice, which I am going to personally champion because of how much this issue has effected me and how important it is to me and my mana. “

To me, that’s something someone who was genuinely remorseful and wanted to effect positive change (and actually be tough on crime) would do. Not try to minimise, hide, evade, and deflect it, call it a “mistake”.

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