What will happen to National now?

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#2952717 9-Aug-2022 20:36

This really puts National in a difficult position.

The next election is shaping up to be a law & order election. National's "tough on crime" narrative is going to be a whole lot harder to sell with this scandal hanging over them. On the other hand, if they ditch him then they will get brutally punished in the by-election that will follow.

The big winner here could be Act. They put forward a strong candidate in the Tauranga by-election and a lot of National's voters would support him if another by-election were to be held.

quickymart

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#2952730 9-Aug-2022 22:14

I suspect that the guy will most likely just hold on and hope it all blows over quickly. But the pertinent question is how quickly will this blow over?

If he resigns that's gotta be the shortest time an elected MP has ever held a seat in Parliament.

quickymart

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#2952732 9-Aug-2022 22:20

sen8or:

...Arderns advertising army must be worried about the latest polls to go trudging though history digging up dirt

Um, no.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/129521702/sam-uffindell-revelations-come-at-bad-time-for-national

It wasn’t a Labour hit job, with Labour members just as surprised as the National Party’s leadership duo of Christopher Luxon and Nicola Willis to learn of it.

elpenguino

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#2952784 9-Aug-2022 23:04

quickymart:

sen8or:

...Arderns advertising army must be worried about the latest polls to go trudging though history digging up dirt

Um, no.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/129521702/sam-uffindell-revelations-come-at-bad-time-for-national

It wasn’t a Labour hit job, with Labour members just as surprised as the National Party’s leadership duo of Christopher Luxon and Nicola Willis to learn of it.

There's only one side that likes to play it that way. Remember this? https://www.pottonandburton.co.nz/product/dirty-politics/

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

GV27

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#2952815 10-Aug-2022 06:38

elpenguino:

There's only one side that likes to play it that way. Remember this? https://www.pottonandburton.co.nz/product/dirty-politics/

Seriously? You don't remember the fake news about John Key and the 'H Fee' saga that Labour were floating in the run-up to the 2008 election?

Good lord. I've seen some crap on the internet in my time, but the accusation that only one side has ever played it rough is delusional.

sen8or

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#2952824 10-Aug-2022 08:16

I expect there to be a situation vacant advertisement in Tauranga soon with the rise and fall of a short lived MP. Whilst on one hand, his actions were many years ago, I would expect that if the other allegations are true and National knew of them beforehand, he would never have been put forward for candidacy to begin with. National can't afford to be seen sweeping this under the carpet (and to be fair, with Luxon looking to appoint an independent investigator, he doesn't look like he is doing that).

As for "only one side play dirty politics", what utter horse $hit. Modern politics is a dirty business and almost no one has a squeaky clean past, it comes down to when and how the information of that past is used.

Rikkitic

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#2952841 10-Aug-2022 08:48

Rikkitic:

In other cases where something has come out about an MP's past, other things have also often emerged after a time. It might be better to reserve judgement until there is more certainty that no other skeletons are lurking in the shadows. This fellow's assurances don't carry a whole lot of credibility right now. He was an admitted bully and at least on one occasion a violent thug in his adolescence. Of course people can learn from their mistakes and change, but those he represents deserve more than just his word that he has undergone such a transformation. It is not unusual for 16 year-olds to get into fights. It is less common for them to assault helpless younger children with weapons while they are sleeping. I find that more than a little disturbin

As stated above. Is a pattern emerging? This latest bit is just anecdotal at the moment but it does make one wonder. If a third witness emerges, there should definitely be a by-election.

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floydbloke

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#2952858 10-Aug-2022 09:20

alasta:

This really puts National in a difficult position.

The next election is shaping up to be a law & order election. National's "tough on crime" narrative is going to be a whole lot harder to sell with this scandal hanging over them. On the other hand, if they ditch him then they will get brutally punished in the by-election that will follow.

...

I think the best way to save some face for National is to 'man-up' and admit they've made a recruitment error. Kick Uffindell out and potentially 'pay the price' for their mistake through the by-election.

Thanks for explaining "plethora".

It means a lot.

elpenguino

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#2952866 10-Aug-2022 09:50

GV27:

elpenguino:

There's only one side that likes to play it that way. Remember this? https://www.pottonandburton.co.nz/product/dirty-politics/

Seriously? You don't remember the fake news about John Key and the 'H Fee' saga that Labour were floating in the run-up to the 2008 election?

Good lord. I've seen some crap on the internet in my time, but the accusation that only one side has ever played it rough is delusional.

FWIW , I've never heard of that. Got a good reference? Was it so serious that someone wrote a book about it?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

GV27

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#2952870 10-Aug-2022 10:09

elpenguino:

FWIW , I've never heard of that. Got a good reference? Was it so serious that someone wrote a book about it?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/party-reimbursed-williams-for-melbourne-trip-says-clark/VFTKDERIDJ4B2W42WKMSSRDV4U/

They got super desperate when it became clear that Key was going to steamroll them in 2008.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/anatomy-of-a-76-million-political-dirt-file/CKTGSADFPHZZIW7SO6Z37AYD4I/

Unfortunately it was so baseless that Nicky Hager was strangely not compelled to write a book about this one.

antonknee

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#2953030 10-Aug-2022 14:59

All sides of politics play dirty, but one party in particular really seems to play a bit dirtier and bit more often (and more recently) than the other…. I know it hurts to accept that your preferred team play dirty, but engaging in whataboutism doesn’t actually change the facts.

On Uffindell, more accusations last night. Suspended by Luxon. Luxon now saying “ohhh actually my team did know, just not me”.

Why is it that the National Party scandals ALWAYS unfold in this manner, with the story never being clear and constantly changing, and surrounded by small lies, omissions of fact, actions of emotional junior staffers or unknown advisors, and getting off on technicalities?

What an absolute joke. And this is the crew half the country want running things? Labour might suck but the last half decade of the National party has been an utter sh*tshow.

networkn

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#2953031 10-Aug-2022 15:04

antonknee: All sides of politics play dirty, but one party in particular really seems to play a bit dirtier and bit more often (and more recently) than the other…. I know it hurts to accept that your preferred team play dirty, but engaging in whataboutism doesn’t actually change the facts.

On Uffindell, more accusations last night. Suspended by Luxon. Luxon now saying “ohhh actually my team did know, just not me”.

Why is it that the National Party scandals ALWAYS unfold in this manner, with the story never being clear and constantly changing, and surrounded by small lies, omissions of fact, actions of emotional junior staffers or unknown advisors, and getting off on technicalities?

What an absolute joke. And this is the crew half the country want running things? Labour might suck but the last half decade of the National party has been an utter sh*tshow.

What a selective memory you have.

Perhaps review the first 18 months of scandals from Labour when they took power. They were awful in opposition too.

quickymart

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#2953042 10-Aug-2022 15:39

Looks like things going from bad to worse for Sam...

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/national-party-leader-christopher-luxon-on-whether-he-trusts-sam-uffindell-after-latest-allegations-i-have-up-until-last-night.html

And also National admits things could be done better: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/newly-appointed-national-party-president-sylvia-wood-admits-selection-process-could-be-improved.html

antonknee

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#2953051 10-Aug-2022 15:53

networkn:
What a selective memory you have.

Perhaps review the first 18 months of scandals from Labour when they took power. They were awful in opposition too.

Yeah totally fair I probably am missing stuff - mainly because I wasn’t all that interested in politics before about 2017. And in fairness to me, National has dominated the headlines since 2017 with scandals.

The only Labour scandals that come to mind immediately for me are:
Clare Curran/Carol Hirschfeld secret meetings scandal (IMO blown way out of proportion)
Party staffer sexual assault allegations (terrible, but at least not related to a sitting MP)
Meka Whatiri assault allegations (which she denies for what it’s worth, and the report found them only probable. Uffindell also denies his most recent allegations for what that’s worth).
Mallard’s rape/sexual assault comments about the Parly staffer (I don’t know enough about this to really comment, but gut feel tells me Mallard made a bad situation much worse). Mallard strikes me as a prize dolt, and I don’t think he should be in Parly anymore frankly for various reasons.

Rikkitic

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#2953052 10-Aug-2022 16:01

networkn:

What a selective memory you have.

Perhaps review the first 18 months of scandals from Labour when they took power. They were awful in opposition too.

Since both alternatives are so awful and there is no other choice, I guess there is no point in voting at all!

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