What will happen to National now?

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#3066729 21-Apr-2023 19:48

When even farmers disagree with the policies, something is wrong: Farmers say National's plan to reverse Government farm regulations could be a backward step | Stuff.co.nz

Farmers say National’s plan to reverse many of the Government’s farm regulations might undo good work done in recent years.

On Wednesday National said its package aimed to make 19 changes to the rules and regulations to the agriculture sector.

The package included proposals on water quality, winter grazing, RSE workers, visa requirements for accredited employers and foreign direct investment that allowed foreign investors to buy farmland and convert it to forestry.

National would also introduce a two-for-one rule, with two regulations removed for every new one implemented.

Tapanui sheep and beef farmer Richard Young said he did not agree with all the changes National proposed.

“I'm a wee bit brassed off that they've pulled back on some of the regulations around winter grazing and environmental issues. I'm not going to argue that there's been too much (regulations), but I think we've made some progress on better farm practices, and it would be a shame to go back in time by relaxing certain regulations that helped make improvements,” Young said.

Young said most farmers wanted progress, and regulatory changes pushed the minority to “up their game”.

“If you look at a picture of winter grazing and cows up to their guts (in mud), it’s this type of thing that's what lets us down as a country, and that's what's going to impact the value of our products going overseas. We need to avoid that at all costs,” he said.

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#3074651 10-May-2023 18:17

their strategy is telling everyone to vote for national and don't vote anyone else, and ruling out coalition left right and center so i don't see them forming any govt after the elections, unless ?

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#3074785 10-May-2023 20:42

Batman:

...i don't see them forming any govt after the elections...

Sounds good to me.

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#3074847 10-May-2023 23:07

But, maybe I'm speaking too soon... https://thespinoff.co.nz/live-updates/10-05-2023/national-moves-ahead-of-labour-in-new-poll

GV27

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#3074868 11-May-2023 06:23

freitasm:

When even farmers disagree with the policies, something is wrong: Farmers say National's plan to reverse Government farm regulations could be a backward step | Stuff.co.nz

There's going to be a bit of this. I hear in financial circles almost no professional agreeing with the terrible arguments put forward in the case of reinstating deductibility for property investors - in fact I generally hear more people complaining about reinstating it than anything else.

It's an instant vote- and possibly an election-loser. Yet they persist.

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#3078203 21-May-2023 07:51

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/132090938/national-has-got-much-bigger-problems-than-an-unpopular-leader >> Andrea Vance makes quite a few good points here.

sir1963

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#3078363 21-May-2023 19:55

GV27:

freitasm:

When even farmers disagree with the policies, something is wrong: Farmers say National's plan to reverse Government farm regulations could be a backward step | Stuff.co.nz

There's going to be a bit of this. I hear in financial circles almost no professional agreeing with the terrible arguments put forward in the case of reinstating deductibility for property investors - in fact I generally hear more people complaining about reinstating it than anything else.

It's an instant vote- and possibly an election-loser. Yet they persist.

Well I won't be voting labour after their blatant lie about interest deductions being a "loop hole", one that EVERY other business still has.

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blackjack17

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#3078459 22-May-2023 08:12

sir1963:

Well I won't be voting labour after their blatant lie about interest deductions being a "loop hole", one that EVERY other business still has.

I have a feeling you wouldn't have voted for Labour regardless

Electric kiwi signup credit Sharesies credit

GV27

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#3078898 23-May-2023 09:04

sir1963:

Well I won't be voting labour after their blatant lie about interest deductions being a "loop hole", one that EVERY other business still has.

Thin Cap rules exist, entertainment deduction limitations exist, the employee vs. contractor deduction limitation exists. These all violate the 'Costs associated with revenue should be entirely deductible!!!!1!1!" argument that investors like to put forward as to why they should get to claim an interest deduction on a residential house that an owner using it in exactly the same way as a tenant would would not get either.

This supposed absolute relationship does not exist in the tax system, it's not true and it never has been.

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#3078904 23-May-2023 09:43

sir1963:

Well I won't be voting labour after their blatant lie about interest deductions being a "loop hole", one that EVERY other business still has.

Housing shouldn't be a business investment, that is one of the factors that has driven prices up. We need to pull all tax incentives from housing so investors put their money in productive parts of the economy instead.

It really is a failing of National that they fall back on the BS about mum and dad landlords and fail to focus on NZ's high tech economy.

We're not going to be better off as a nation if we keep selling logs.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

GV27

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#3078909 23-May-2023 10:07

Also, nickel-and-diming Kiwis over $5 script fees and having a daycare subsidy that is virtually unattainable for moderate dual income Auckland households is the last straw.

I am out. I won't vote for them.

sir1963

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#3079065 23-May-2023 18:46

blackjack17:

sir1963:

Well I won't be voting labour after their blatant lie about interest deductions being a "loop hole", one that EVERY other business still has.

I have a feeling you wouldn't have voted for Labour regardless

Actually I did, last 2 times.

I have also voted NZ First, Greens, and National in different elections

I will also typically split my vote between the party I would prefer and the local candidate that I believe is the most competent.

Are you going to tell me now how the "loop-hole" is NOT a lie ?

sir1963

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#3079067 23-May-2023 18:55

GV27:

sir1963:

Well I won't be voting labour after their blatant lie about interest deductions being a "loop hole", one that EVERY other business still has.

Thin Cap rules exist, entertainment deduction limitations exist, the employee vs. contractor deduction limitation exists. These all violate the 'Costs associated with revenue should be entirely deductible!!!!1!1!" argument that investors like to put forward as to why they should get to claim an interest deduction on a residential house that an owner using it in exactly the same way as a tenant would would not get either.

This supposed absolute relationship does not exist in the tax system, it's not true and it never has been.

I feel the solution here will be a referendum.

Do you think landlords are OK or not.

If you vote no, you get to pay higher taxes so the government can afford to buy the $1 Trillion worth of housing required off existing landlords as well as the interest costs.

If someone has to pay, why not you ?

What's next, supermarkets, clothes/shoes/furniture stores ?

sir1963

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#3079071 23-May-2023 19:36

elpenguino:

sir1963:

Well I won't be voting labour after their blatant lie about interest deductions being a "loop hole", one that EVERY other business still has.

Housing shouldn't be a business investment, that is one of the factors that has driven prices up. We need to pull all tax incentives from housing so investors put their money in productive parts of the economy instead.

It really is a failing of National that they fall back on the BS about mum and dad landlords and fail to focus on NZ's high tech economy.

We're not going to be better off as a nation if we keep selling logs.

It is the fact that per head of population we were building twice as many houses in the 1970s than we are now

It is a fact that construction improvements are now required, this costs extra

Its a fact that without news houses we will end up in another worse shortage

Its a fact that a house "illegal" under healthy homes as a rental is perfectly OK if privately owned

It is a fact the WORST non complaint landlord is Kainga Ora who has the most vulnerable clients

The government does not have enough money to be the sole landlord, well unless you want every other government function to be full recovery cost, eg health, education, welfare, pensions, in that if you can not afford them you don't get them.

NONE of my rentals have people who can afford to buy, do they wait 10-20 years in a car until some kind of miracle occurs ?

Why does Germany, with a MUCH stronger economy have much lower home ownership rates ?

If you feel that strongly then all I can suggest is you and 9 mates each take out a $100,000 loan, buy a house and give it to someone.

Are you going to get to the bit where 23% of the population pays 80% of the taxes ?

80% of health

80% of pensions

80% of welfare

80% of the "free" early child care

80% of the "free" prescriptions

etc etc etc.

And then how the other 77% feel entitled to benefit from that ?

Then shall we mention how the government keeps funding tertiary education increases at less than the rate of inflation. Universities are dumbing down and closing courses, some are even expecting their staff to "Volunteer" to do gardening, cleaning, etc because they no longer employ people to do that.

The tell me where the government is going to get the money to fix health, thats a disaster. We have falling immunisation rates, Hospitals rebuilds are being severely scaled back, waiting lists are blowing out, mental health is horrific , staff shortages are rife

GPs are a bigger looming disaster, some larger practices who did after hours etc are cutting back hours, will no longer see non enrolled patients

Primary/intermediate/secondary education is failing the kids, they are performing WORSE than ever for Maths/Reading

Roading is broken, it has more pot holes than ever before

Then we get into what will we do about climate change , thats going to have massive repercussions all over NZ

What about all the tens/hundreds of billions needed for infrastructure upgrades

So where does all this money come from ?

It would cost about $1 Trillion for the government to be the sole landlord. Just the interest on this would be more than health and welfare combined.

Are you going to advocate for the state to steal property to solve the issue ?

If landlords don't reinvest, where do the tenants from flood damaged homes go to ?

So are you going to tax your way out of it ? That will only shift more skilled people and more money to Australia

House prices are never going to fall to where everyone can buy one, that as a minimum would kill the construction industry dead and would send all the tradies to Australia

Do we stop immigration, but we need skilled people here and we are certainly not training them (see tertiary education failure)

We have families looking at leaving NZ because of the high youth crime , where does the money to solve this come from

So please give a real answer baed on where does the money come from and what do we give up on, because there is not enough money to do everything.

sir1963

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#3079075 23-May-2023 20:05

GV27:

sir1963:

Well I won't be voting labour after their blatant lie about interest deductions being a "loop hole", one that EVERY other business still has.

Thin Cap rules exist, entertainment deduction limitations exist, the employee vs. contractor deduction limitation exists. These all violate the 'Costs associated with revenue should be entirely deductible!!!!1!1!" argument that investors like to put forward as to why they should get to claim an interest deduction on a residential house that an owner using it in exactly the same way as a tenant would would not get either.

This supposed absolute relationship does not exist in the tax system, it's not true and it never has been.

Did you notice that your "examples" applied to ALL industries, they did not discriminate. you are advocating for discriminatory behaviour.

So lets put it another way , What if we remove "subsidies" for early child care workers for Labour voters.

Subsidies are bad...apparently, you can discriminate on who they apply to according to you, so that seems OK, using the tax system to punish people you do not like seems to be OK too. So where do we stop with the tax system being a political tool, when it hurts you ?

And the home owner is NOT using it the same way as a landlord, for a start they are not making money out of it.Would turning all rentals into Air BnBs make it legitimate, so they are just like hotels, motels, campgrounds , etc ?

Perhaps we will say Taxi drivers, Trucking firms, lawn mowing businesses, etc etc should not be able to deduct their interest because home owners can't and they use that stuff in exactly the same way.

Small business owners who have a home office can tax deduct a percentage of interest, insurance, phone , power, rates, internet etc from the home they live in.

Convert a house into say a Doctors practice, they then even get to claim depreciation, or make it an accountant, business manager, after school care, etc etc, they can all do the same, the home owner can't. Worse though is they have removed that house from even being rented adding to a greater shortage of housing.

Why can they do that, because they are using it to make money and these things are legitimate business expenses.

How about businesses that expect their staff to wear black pants (no jeans/trackies etc), black shoes, etc. The business can deduct the cost of the tops as a business expense the workers can't, shall we take that deduction from businesses ?

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