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tdgeek
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  #3080106 27-May-2023 18:16
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mudguard:

 

I think the thing is, there isn't really a shortage or issue with Ferrari's, art or stocks. No one really needs those. But we all need a place to live. That's probably why it's looked at so closely. 

 

Obviously this is a thorny issue. Who do you penalise? Currently it's whichever Gen is coming next. As for the farm example, maybe if capital gains is brought in, draw a line and say it will be at the CV as of the 1st of December 2023 or whatever and charge the 39% after that. 

 

I heard and interesting example of how the Queenstown Lakes District is treating some of the big farms around the area. Currently with zoning type, a lot of those ye olde high country farms are essentially worthless. Over run with rabbits, can't grow much or graze etc. But the interest the council rezones it to permit a subdivision, it's worth mega bucks. So the council gets something like 5% of the land, or it's value, for affordable housing. 

 

Which I thought was pretty cool. I mean the council represents the community really, and if one pen stroke is going to make you a millionaire, then you get to give back to the community. 

 

 

In all seriousness, what is your suggestion to resolve the housing crisis, which appears to be landlord caused. I'm not taking the p1ss, just asking a serious question as the theme here the last few days is landlords are evil by causing housing issues by being greedy. 




mudguard
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  #3080316 28-May-2023 13:14
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tdgeek:

 

In all seriousness, what is your suggestion to resolve the housing crisis, which appears to be landlord caused. I'm not taking the p1ss, just asking a serious question as the theme here the last few days is landlords are evil by causing housing issues by being greedy. 

 

 

 

 

I don't genuinely know. All the answers are inherently tricky, build more houses. Ok but we don't really have enough tradies etc to do the scale. It takes time to train them so there will always be lag. Then there's the real problem which is the land price. 

 

I still think if you made subsequent property ownership as difficult as purchasing the first home it would help. If you had to use cash for the deposit for the second and third homes I think it would genuinely make a dent. Throw capital gains on at 39% for all housing (no family home exclusion).

 

When I worked for a bank we used to call deposits hurt money for a reason. It takes time and effort, whereas if you can use equity from an existing property it's not really the same. 

 

To be honest I think it's all moot now anyway. Our population is ageing too quickly, those who we need to have kids, aren't. We will rely on immigration for younger people who realistically won't be that attracted to our low wages and expensive housing, and our superannuation bill is going to go through the roof. I hate to think what my personal tax rate will be in another two decades. 


gzt

gzt
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  #3080390 28-May-2023 16:17
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Stuff sums up the practical effect of National vs Labour residential property investment policy:

Stuff: If Labour gets back in at the next election, investor says she and her husband will probably sell one of their four properties. But if National regains power, they already have pre-approval, ready to buy a fifth.

The investor indicates she's aware of many investors in a similar position, her day job is real estate. This implies a National government will see a continuation of steep residential property price increase at least in the short to medium term. Longer term, National are talking about somehow improving the odds for greenfield new suburb development in existing rural and semi-rural areas. Details are yet to be announced.

Conversely Labour's sinking lid on non-build residential property investment seems like it will have exactly the desired effect in the short and medium term allowing first home buyers and owner-occupiers a wider choice of low risk existing property.



quickymart
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  #3080488 28-May-2023 21:02
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Another reason (for me) to not vote National. Luxon's flip-flopping on what I thought was a good, bipartisan housing policy makes me feel like he really has no idea what he's doing.


GV27
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  #3080523 29-May-2023 06:09
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quickymart:

 

Another reason (for me) to not vote National. Luxon's flip-flopping on what I thought was a good, bipartisan housing policy makes me feel like he really has no idea what he's doing.

 

 

There is no reason for anyone under 40 to even consider voting National. 


quickymart
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  #3080529 29-May-2023 07:09
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I must be an outlier - I'm over 40 and still wouldn't vote for them (never have actually).


sir1963
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  #3080537 29-May-2023 07:18
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quickymart:

 

I must be an outlier - I'm over 40 and still wouldn't vote for them (never have actually).

 

 

 

 

I am nearly 60 and have voted

 

Social Credit,Labour, National, Greens, NZ First and since MMP I mostly split my vote.


tdgeek
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  #3080538 29-May-2023 07:18
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IMHO, Luxon is hurting National, he has little political knowledge and even less political nous. Liability


GV27
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  #3080540 29-May-2023 07:41
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tdgeek:

 

IMHO, Luxon is hurting National, he has little political knowledge and even less political nous. Liability

 

 

They haven't had an electable leader since Bridges. Whole party is cooked. This isn't a one-off anymore, they keep installing and selecting from the same shallow talent pool and getting predictable results. 


quickymart
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  #3080542 29-May-2023 07:47
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I thought Bridges was okay. I thought Muller bit off more than he could chew, hence his extremely short tenure. Collins I find absolutely reprehensible, and Luxon, well, he used to run an airline 😆


Handle9

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  #3081131 29-May-2023 21:22
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ezbee:


The move of F&P Whiteware manufacturing was for other reasons and unrelated to taxation of wealth.
As much as its eventual fire sale to Haier of China.
Similar for CKD car assembly, moved from NZ, and eventually from Australia.
PYE closing down TV manufacturing in Waihi etc etc. 


Somewhat inevitable in the trade agreements to get Farmers access to markets.
There was also necessary access to products and tools that import licensing was gumming up to advance technologically.
Though changes in world trade, technology and such made it inevitable.


F&P Healthcare is still hanging in there, its quite something how big that site has grown, 
but still mixed in with offshore production close to markets needed to sell globally.


I do remember a story going back to the Round the World Yacht races.
Some high net wealth Yachting types discussing "hot bunking" and all that stuff.
One involved in manufacturing pipes up...
They have factories in China where staff do that, in shifts, pay them almost nothing too, I have to get me one of them ! 


 



F&P appliances was a value destruction machine for years before it got acquired by Haier. The final straw was the GFC which was caused by………. property speculation

quickymart
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  #3081142 29-May-2023 21:50
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quickymart:

 

Another reason (for me) to not vote National. Luxon's flip-flopping on what I thought was a good, bipartisan housing policy makes me feel like he really has no idea what he's doing.

 

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/te-reo-maori-road-signs-supported-by-national-says-mp-chris-bishop-pm-chris-hipkins-accuses-party-of-dog-whistle/H3JPVLTAGJEPZPWLWFOPTM3YIE/

 

Case in point (again). What's next? Suddenly they'll want to tax the rich even more? 🙄


ezbee
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  #3081168 29-May-2023 22:27
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Quickymart.

 

ChatGPT, just a clever arrangement of Flip Flops ? 

 


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/24/new-zealand-national-party-admits-using-ai-generated-people-in-ads

 

Then...

 

There is the cautionary tale of Liz Truss
Announce a set of tax cuts in an economy that can't support it.
Market goes into freefall as do you. 


GV27
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  #3081213 30-May-2023 06:16
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ezbee:

 

There is the cautionary tale of Liz Truss
Announce a set of tax cuts in an economy that can't support it.
Market goes into freefall as do you. 

 

 

The New Zealand market can support tax cuts. It's insane that we tolerate inflation running at 7% and food inflation at 10%, but then buy into the ridiculous claims by Robertson that indexing tax brackets for the huge inflation he's presiding over is a 'tax cut'. It's just 'not going backwards as fast he wants to us to so he looks like he can balance the books'. 

 

If he seriously thinks that then he's too stupid to be Finance Minister and he is mostly definitely not that stupid. 

 

Anyone who suggests that tax cuts are somehow inflationary needs to explain why it's somehow less inflationary for the government to collect that money and still spend it anyway. They won't because they can't. 

 

If I spend extra at the supermarket, I get extra things. If the government takes that money, rinses it through various departments then dumps it into a black hole that yields little to no tangible improvement at best, then all it does is create a future political commitment to keep spending that money year-on-year, lest they be accused of the exact same thing they're weeing themselves over National apparently proposing, just in reverse. 


tdgeek
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  #3081218 30-May-2023 06:49
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GV27:

 

 

 

Anyone who suggests that tax cuts are somehow inflationary needs to explain why it's somehow less inflationary for the government to collect that money and still spend it anyway. 

 

 

Good question. Tax cuts would cause more spending, and if a portion of our inflation is demand based, that will cause inflation. More demand same supply. If a Govt spent up on road infrastructure that would cause the price of bitumen to go up, but Bunnings doesnt sell bitumen so I dont see any inflation for that example. 

 

Interesting article on greedflation the other day. Upping prices because the consumer wont be surprised.

 

Back to tax cuts. Can NZ afford them? Analogise it to the home budget. If the budget incurs another cost, then spending on something else has to be reduced. In many ways the Govt budget is similar to a low income family budget. Except the family can work more hours for more income, the Govt cannot. #rockandahardplace 


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