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insane
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  #2875271 26-Feb-2022 13:03
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I guess looking at the map it's conceivable that a West and East Ukraine could form, with the river being the wall/boarder.

But as the European response has been so weak (based on their dependence on Russia for energy), he'll just press on and take the lot while the military hardware is there, declare it yet another new nation, and shift his missiles and nuclear weapons there and claim that because it's a new state, all prior agreements are void.

We've all seen this behaviour on the playground as kids, it doesn't stop until someone big or brave enough takes a big stand and does something heroic.

The last two years has also taught him that the gen pop is very compliant and won't protest much, so it's all a fairly low risk while the rest of the world is consumed by covid.




tdgeek
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  #2875273 26-Feb-2022 13:25
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I feel it was always about taking over, Ukraine remains as a country, but its under Russian puppet control. 

 

Just heard that while they can be like a war and take over, they need to manage the people and they wont play ball. They are very resistant. Also read that while the land army is FAR bigger in Russia, UKR has 900,000 reservists, all signing up as we speak. Its a but like taking over an ant farm but you can't control the ants


insane
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  #2875286 26-Feb-2022 14:07
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Haven't heard about the 900,000 reservists. Are you talking about every male 18-60? If they aren't trained or don't have access to weaponry and a chain of command, then their best hope is a painful gorilla warfare style conflict over years and years.

I think their whole population has some form of very basic training. Know a Ukrainian developer and she had some weapons handling skills.

tdgeek
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  #2875289 26-Feb-2022 14:13
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insane: Haven't heard about the 900,000 reservists. Are you talking about every male 18-60? If they aren't trained or don't have access to weaponry and a chain of command, then their best hope is a painful gorilla warfare style conflict over years and years.

I think their whole population has some form of very basic training. Know a Ukrainian developer and she had some weapons handling skills.

 

The article was a breakdown of who has what, ill dig it out.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/25/europe/russia-ukraine-military-comparison-intl/index.html

 

 

 

Yes, they arent soldiers, they are just a resistance movement. 


ezbee
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  #2875314 26-Feb-2022 15:16
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Its such crap...

 

Under different leadership they would be sitting around having drinks over stories of common suffering under the corrupt.
They would have much to contribute to each others development, and be better off for it.

 

I'm sure the average Russian grunt and those on national service finding themselves in this
don't see any glory in being maimed or dying for Putin's pleasure.

 

Defending your homeland is quite different from attacking someone elses.

 

There are others who might get a piece of the pie that remains further up the chain away from danger.

 

Putin was always painted as Mr Action Man.
I see he is not leading the charge here bare chested manliness and all.

 

Maybe on a horse
https://www.vox.com/2015/6/17/8796659/vladimir-putin-shirtless-video

 

 


Journeyman
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  #2875324 26-Feb-2022 15:56
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Russian tank runs over Ukrainian civilian car; driver survives

 

This tank driver went out of his way to try and run over a civilian. I get collateral damage but this ain't it. Seems like it should be a war crime. 

 

 

 

Posted in the ANNOY thread, because it annoyed me, moved to this thread where it's probably more appropriate.


rugrat
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  #2875447 26-Feb-2022 19:48
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/western-powers-have-realised-russia-is-largely-immune-to-sanctions-ukraine-putin

 

Even if the nuclear option of swift is shut down for Russia, they will just go through the Chinese one and integrate from there. 
Russia as been setting up for this for a long time, and it seems they calculated the sanctions that would happen and have that covered has well. If they can’t get items from the West, then China can send it their way.


cruxis
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  #2875450 26-Feb-2022 19:52
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I fear Russia troops have been too at slow taking the capital, and might resort to using indirect artillery to take the city.


tdgeek
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  #2875453 26-Feb-2022 19:58
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cruxis:

 

I fear Russia troops have been too at slow taking the capital, and might resort to using indirect artillery to take the city.

 

 

There already has been, apartment buildings, kindergartens, hospital. What I saw today was news that they arent that great at on the ground warfare. UKR are far more ready than they were in 2014, they are organised, they know the land. And massively motivated. A commentator today did make a good point. The longer that UKR defend their country the more fatalities there will be, and they will still lose.


tdgeek
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  #2875504 26-Feb-2022 20:03
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Not sure what to make of the negotiations that UKR supposedly wants, and that Putin supposedly wants. There will be no negotiation just Putins terms. Government steps down, endorses the thugs appointed by Putin, tell people to cooperate, goodbye UKR. Perhaps there may be no choice except to surrender the country in order to reduce lives lost, but that against the frequent statements by UKR


ezbee
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  #2875512 26-Feb-2022 20:30
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Peace negotiations on Putin's terms might have very limited latitude.
However if you agree to participate it does put pressure on Putin to show good faith, and negotiate with hostilities stopped ?

It also shows you are not being belligerent, and the one who is may show themselves up.
I expect Putin will not stop and expect to talk while killing. 

 

If there is a chance to give your population some respite I suppose you take it.
Of course if Putin was a reasonable person there would have been no invasion in first place.

 

Its hard to talk of Russian motivation as the people of Russia are unlikely to have ever wanted a hot war.
Least those with children on compulsory Russian military service thrown into this.

 

Belarus should have also been heavily sanctioned as facilitating this whole mess.
Their territory is where the attack through Chernobyl had to jump off and continue to be supplied from.
Quick if radioactive road to Kyiv.  


tdgeek
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  #2875520 26-Feb-2022 20:44
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ezbee:

 

Peace negotiations on Putin's terms might have very limited latitude.
However if you agree to participate it does put pressure on Putin to show good faith, and negotiate with hostilities stopped ?

It also shows you are not being belligerent, and the one who is may show themselves up.
I expect Putin will not stop and expect to talk while killing. 

 

If there is a chance to give your population some respite I suppose you take it.
Of course if Putin was a reasonable person there would have been no invasion in first place.

 

Its hard to talk of Russian motivation as the people of Russia are unlikely to have ever wanted a hot war.
Least those with children on compulsory Russian military service thrown into this.

 

Belarus should have also been heavily sanctioned as facilitating this whole mess.
Their territory is where the attack through Chernobyl had to jump off and continue to be supplied from.
Quick if radioactive road to Kyiv.  

 

 

Agree fully. Putin being open to a meeting will "appear" to be showing latitude, but IMO his terms will be taking Ukraine, so there might be talks but no negotiation. Well Zelensky staying alive perhaps, but I dont see him being allowed to stay in the UKR. 

 

The other issue is I think I heard that Putins support is waning, maybe the people are seeing that his goal is to be the modern Tzar, emulate his role model, Peter the Great, but this is a modern world now, so he may be backing himself into a corner, hence no negotiation.


K8Toledo
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  #2875526 26-Feb-2022 20:57
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cruxis:

 

I fear Russia troops have been too at slow taking the capital, and might resort to using indirect artillery to take the city.

 

 

 

 

And seige the city as the Wehrmacht did at Leningrad during Operation Barbarossa?  I doubt it.

 

 

 

Edit:

 

Come to think of it the shelling of Sarajevo during the Bosnian war didn't turn out well for the Bosnian commanders who were later convicted of war crimes for the shelling.


K8Toledo
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  #2875572 27-Feb-2022 00:21
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This morning's New York Times:

 

 

 

 

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/03/26/world/26ukraine-briefing4/25ukraine-briefing-saturday-lead-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp

 


rugrat
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  #2875574 27-Feb-2022 01:21
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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-seizes-ship-suspected-violating-russia-sanctions-official-2022-02-26/

 

France has seized a Russian ship suspected of violating sanctions. Russian embassy in France is seeking an explanation.

 

Edit: I also noticed Russian Television has been halted on Sky, just has RT is currently unavailable.


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