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SaltyNZ
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  #3027452 26-Jan-2023 12:31
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neb: They sell an export version with the (appropriately-named and mis-spelled) Export Armor Package to all sorts of questionable places, so there's no problem there.

 

 

 

Yes, they do, but they would have to manufacture them. If they were to draw down their own stocks, then even the obsolete ones at the boneyards have at least the DU armour, if not DU + ceramics which would need to be retrofitted. Either way, they don't have a bunch lying around to be shipped overnight via Amazon Prime. :-) This article explains it in some detail.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


ezbee
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  #3027514 26-Jan-2023 14:12
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Yeh, maybe why the quantity of Abrams offered is only enough to trigger Leopards.
Thats all that is in some reserve or export order that can be delayed.

 

Main thing is that these can unlock Leopards.
Less expensive and more sensible on resources.
Reverse gears as well, so you can reverse faster than crawling speed !
Maintenance and spares in Europe, and more engineers in any population with diesel expertise. 
Plus confirming to Russia that Europe's support is not going to wane.

 

Wholehearted and prompt support is actually LEVERAGE for peace negotiation.
The whole theatre around this has given Putin etc much hope, and damaged future negotiations.

 

So a lot of catching up to do. 

 

Even down-graded Abrams.
I expect they do very well against hurriedly refurbished Russian tanks. T-55 you're next!
More important is reliable gun, targeting and communication with superior heat vision capabilities.
See and hit first, with a second already on the way, loading third for another target. 

 

The autoloaders on Soviet stuff appear to suffer over time from wear and poor maintenance.
Tales on both sides of problems with these. 

 

If you were at all worried about capture you make sure they have lots of Arty & Bradley support, 
and toss in a few airplanes with Hellfires and GLSDB. Seems they are not yet. 

 

However I expect it's not the point. 


wellygary
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  #3027521 26-Jan-2023 14:34
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ezbee:

 

Yeh, maybe why the quantity of Abrams offered is only enough to trigger Leopards.
Thats all that is in some reserve or export order that can be delayed.

 

Main thing is that these can unlock Leopards.

 

 

It's quite clear that the US and UK commitments are ,mainly there as leverage on Germany to release Leopards from

 

a) Their own stock, and b) allowing other NATO partners to on lend leopards to Ukraine.

 

Now that it is clear that Ukraine is prepared to accept huge losses to its civilian infrastructure the US are very keen to assist with a huge degrading of Russia's conventional ability...  and for less than 10% of its annual defence budget the US is basically removing/destroying over 50% of Russia's conventional force equipment.....

 

Pretty sure there will be US advisors now embedded with Ukrainian military analysts keeping track of what Russian Hardware they destroy 


neb

neb
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  #3027537 26-Jan-2023 14:53
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ezbee:
Reverse gears as well,

 

 

I understand that was a big selling point for Italy.

K8Toledo
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  #3027541 26-Jan-2023 14:57
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neb:
SaltyNZ:

 

Even without the supply chain stuff it's not quite that simple. US Abrams tanks use armour made from depleted Uranium and/or top secret ceramic compounds. They don't export that armour even to very close allies. Anything they send to Ukraine - with a near certainty that some examples are going to be destroyed or even captured - need to be first downgraded to steel or other non-sensitive types of armour. That's not exactly a 5-minute job.

 

They sell an export version with the (appropriately-named and mis-spelled) Export Armor Package to all sorts of questionable places, so there's no problem there. I think the real issue will be that the EAP version, which also has downgraded everything else, in the hands of troops who have been rushed into combat with it, may perform poorly and make them look bad. For example a number of Saudi ones were damaged or destroyed in Yemen up against random militias, so they may not fare too well against regular Sovi...Russian troops and equipment.

 

Armor is US English spelling.  Armour is UK English.

 

Just like the difference between color and colour.


Tinkerisk
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  #3027713 27-Jan-2023 03:59
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neb:
ezbee:
Reverse gears as well,
I understand that was a big selling point for Italy.

 

🤣





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Tinkerisk
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  #3027714 27-Jan-2023 04:14
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SaltyNZ:

 

Gurezaemon:

 

I seems that the US should just go ahead and send a dozen Abrams over just in order to let the Leopards get moving.

 

 

Even without the supply chain stuff it's not quite that simple. US Abrams tanks use armour made from depleted Uranium and/or top secret ceramic compounds. They don't export that armour even to very close allies. Anything they send to Ukraine - with a near certainty that some examples are going to be destroyed or even captured - need to be first downgraded to steel or other non-sensitive types of armour. That's not exactly a 5-minute job.

 

 

This is not only true for the Abrams, a Leopard is not stuck in 1979 and has technology that you don't want to present mouth-wateringly to the Russians. Therefore, it will certainly be some from the inventory and will have to be replaced by upgrades that are due in our army anyway - Scholz is certainly not stupid and he certainly won't let himself be thrown off his game by noisy third parties. It's just taking time because the previous government neglected our army for years.

 

 

 

 

 

 





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ezbee
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  #3027877 27-Jan-2023 14:18
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Reverse gears, live to love another day...

 

I expect that Russia knows everything about German Leopards.
Problem is replicating that without western technology with economy smaller than Canada.
Then we get into education and training to make best use of it.

 

UK's answer is to double down on supporting weapons with Challenger II's.
The large number of additional mobile artillery, hellfire missiles and other stuff going at same time.
Sending a more complete package of wider capability.

 

Even doing more infantry training for Ukraine would probably see German troops having more use of their equipment and increasing their own capability than for decades. 
No doubt it would be very satisfying to those involved.

 

Just touching the surface of Russian spy operations?

 

Germany arrests 2nd suspect in Russia spying case
https://apnews.com/article/germany-government-berlin-e6652981c01e1046438a760b1c4360cb

""
Prosecutors said the suspect, a German citizen, is accused of treason for passing secrets obtained by Carsten L., an acquaintance working at Germany’s BND spy agency, to Russian intelligence.
""

 

Second arrest in Russian spy scandal at German intelligence agency
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-spy-arrest-germany-foreign-intelligence-agency-treason/

""
According to prosecutors, this information included state secrets. Spiegel magazine reported that the man worked in a BND department handling critical intelligence on the Ukraine war.
""


Tinkerisk
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  #3028132 28-Jan-2023 01:06
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That's why they spy (regardless of the current BND case) only out of boredom.





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ezbee
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  #3028668 29-Jan-2023 10:12
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Russian networks working all the angles.

 

Burning of Qur’an in Stockholm funded by journalist with Kremlin ties
Permit for demonstration at which anti-Islam provocateur burned Muslim holy book was paid for by far-right journalist linked to Moscow-backed media
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/27/burning-of-quran-in-stockholm-funded-by-journalist-with-kremlin-ties-sweden-nato-russia

 

Explosion at the Embassy of Ukraine: the suspect was taken into custody
https://www.dw.com/uk/imovirnogo-vidpravnika-bombi-posolstvu-ukraini-vzali-pid-vartu-v-ispanii/a-64542569

""
A court in Spain has charged a 74-year-old pensioner with terrorism, who is suspected of involvement in a recent campaign to send explosive-laden mailboxes against the prime minister and the country's defense ministry, as well as against the Ukrainian embassy and several other countries.
""
On January 22, the American edition of The New York Times reported that Russian military intelligence officers instructed militants of a group of white racists based in Russia to campaign with explosives in Spain. U.S. officials told the newspaper that Russian officers who led the campaign intended to "take European governments by surprise" and "may be testing puppet groups in case Moscow decides to escalate the conflict."
""

 

 


neb

neb
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  #3030409 1-Feb-2023 15:02
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K8Toledo:

Armor is US English spelling.  Armour is UK English.

 

 

If they're selling to a world that uses proper spelling then they should adapt to that. Can you imagine a buyer looking through the Guns, Bombs, and other Fun Toys catalogue and thinking "they want us to spend millions on these things but there's basic spelling mistakes in the sales literature?".

Rikkitic
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  #3030466 1-Feb-2023 16:36
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And they keep writing dates backwards. It is like they are trying to confuse us.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


kingdragonfly
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  #3031128 3-Feb-2023 08:31
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I was curious about what grenades Ukrainians are using.

It looks like it's the German D51. There's only a few videos about it, and they are mostly Russian!

New York Times: In a Ukraine Workshop, the Quest to Build the Perfect Grenade

Ukrainian Drone Eliminates Russian Tank || Massive Explosion


Tinkerisk
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  #3031577 4-Feb-2023 04:08
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The Panther is back.





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Tinkerisk
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  #3031578 4-Feb-2023 05:23
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„Si vis pacem para bellum!“ (Marcus Tullius Cicero) - If you want peace, prepare for war.

 

What was frowned upon until recently is now hip and trendy again in seconds. Suddenly, green parties and peace campaigners no longer have a problem with arms companies and weapons technology, indeed, production is not going fast enough for them! Grubby kids are becoming showcase companies. What a crazy world! Yet this quote is the first thing I wrote down in my mind as a young soldier, as a citizen in uniform, and always stuck to it. It doesn't mean that there should/must be a war.

 

 





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