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elpenguino
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  #2901877 13-Apr-2022 12:30
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Rikkitic:

 

elpenguino:

 

'Age of tanks', episode 3, on netflix shows Russian tanks being used against Hungary (56) Prague (68) and Afghanistan (79) so you could say as far as Russia is concerned, whenever you need to liberate a country from themselves, first military move is to send in the tanks.

 

 

If you take the long view, Russia hasn't done too well with this tactic. Hungary maybe a little bit, the others definitely not. 

 

 

Russia hasn't done too well full stop, for ordinary Russians. But that's a problem of us in the West, which is to view Russia in the same way as our own countries.

 

Soldiers coming back in body bags is bad for democracies but for Russian leaders it's just 'meh'. It's not like this ware will stop people voting for Putin. I guarantee he will still get 100.5% of the vote at the next election.





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


neb

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  #2901931 13-Apr-2022 13:59
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tdgeek:

It depends how long the Russian people will be happy being cut off and in a poor economy. 



For any Western country it'd be not very long. For Russia specifically it could be decades, look at their history.

kingdragonfly
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  #2901962 13-Apr-2022 14:50
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BBC News: Ukraine: Fugitive Putin ally Medvedchuk arrested - security service

Ukraine says it has arrested fugitive pro-Russian politician Viktor Medvedchuk, seen as President Vladimir Putin's closest ally in the country.

Ukraine's security service SBU posted a photo purportedly showing Mr Medvedchuk in handcuffs and wearing Ukrainian military fatigues.

He had been under house arrest in the capital Kyiv on suspicion of treason - but escaped soon after Russia invaded Ukraine on 24 February.

...Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky offered to exchange Mr Medvedchuk for Ukrainian "boys and girls who are now in Russian captivity".

...The security service said in a statement: "You can be a pro-Russian politician and work for the aggressor state for years. You may have been hiding from justice lately. You can even wear a Ukrainian military uniform for camouflage.

...Mr Medvedchuk, who says President Putin is godfather to his daughter, is a wealthy businessman who leads the pro-Russian Opposition Platform - For Life party.

...For years Mr Medvedchuk had been tolerated in Ukrainian political circles because he was seen as an important channel of communication with the Kremlin. But he was charged with treason in May 2021.
...

rugrat
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  #2902123 13-Apr-2022 20:08
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https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/russia-ukraine-military-vehicles-finland-b2056938.html%3famp

 

Russian military vehicles reported heading towards Finland. 
Possibly just being done as a warning not to join NATO which sounds like may be discussed in a few weeks.

 

If they do attack, wonder at what point NATO stops worrying about escalation. Putin seems to be to dumb to realise countries are wanting to join NATO for their own security, not from a desire to attack Russia.

 

With their energy sales to Europe Russia was creaming it before they did their unprovoked attack.

 

Also saw on news in Russia Putin is more popular then before invasion, hopefully doesn’t  last. 

 

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/putins-public-approval-is-soaring-during-the-russia-ukraine-crisis-but-its-unlikely-to-last-177302

 

Edit: With a crack down on people that don’t show support, people are probably not going to declare their true feelings in a poll.


elpenguino
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  #2902155 13-Apr-2022 21:25
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rugrat:

 

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/russia-ukraine-military-vehicles-finland-b2056938.html%3famp

 

Russian military vehicles reported heading towards Finland. 

 

 

"But we're such a small country. Where will we bury all their soldiers?"





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


elpenguino
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  #2902157 13-Apr-2022 21:42
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For anyone wondering, that's an alleged quote from a Finn learning the Soviets were attacking their country in 1939.

 

This article draws the many parallels between that ill-fated invasion and this year's 'special operation' in Ukraine.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/02/14/soviet-union-finland-00008519

 

 





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


kingdragonfly
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  #2902213 14-Apr-2022 08:53
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rugrat: Russian military vehicles reported heading towards Finland. 
Possibly just being done as a warning not to join NATO which sounds like may be discussed in a few weeks.


That worked out well for Joe Chill.






itxtme
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  #2902220 14-Apr-2022 09:10
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Finland should absolutely join while they can.  While they had great success at repelling Russia in the early parts of the WW2 the reality is they lost land to Russia then. 

 

Finland lost nearly 23,000 men in that so-called Winter War of 1939-40. As a result of the treaty signed at the end of the Winter War, Finland had to cede parts of Karelia, Salla, and Kuusamo provinces to the Soviet Union, as well as islands in the Gulf of Finland.

 

Finland are going to be a different kettle of fish to Ukraine if Russia did choose to invade.

 

 


freitasm
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  #2902221 14-Apr-2022 09:13
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itxtme: Finland are going to be a different kettle of fish to Ukraine if Russia did choose to invade.

 

 

I kind like this comment: "It is anyhow always good to remember that there are 250.000 Russian armed soldiers already in Finland. All buried down.'





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Sideface
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  #2902441 14-Apr-2022 16:06
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The Guardian - Russian warship 'seriously damaged' after ammunition explosion as crew evacuated, Russian defence ministry says

 

breaking

 

 
The Russian defence ministry has said the entire crew of the warship Moskva, reported to be struck by Ukraine in the Black Sea late on Wednesday night, has been evacuated after an ammunition explosion resulted in a fire on the ship.

 

The ship was famously defied by Ukrainian troops on Snake Island at the start of the war

 

“The cruiser ‘Moskva’ of the Black Sea Fleet was seriously damaged as a result of the detonation of ammunition that occurred as a result of a fire, the crew was evacuated,” Russian state media outlet TASS reported. ...

 

The Moskva was reportedly hit by two Ukrainian missiles late on Wednesday night, a Ukrainian official earlier said. ...

 

The Moskva is the flagship of the Black Sea fleet.

 

 

 

 

Whose version do we believeMoscow’s acknowledgment came hours after the governor of Odessa claimed responsibility for the strike.





Sideface


neb

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  #2902455 14-Apr-2022 17:22
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Sideface:

The ship was famously defied by Ukrainian troops on Snake Island at the start of the war

 

 

Given that the Vasily Bykov, the other ship involved, was claimed damaged or sunk but later turned up with no visible damage, I'd wait for further confirmation. Not saying it's Ukrainian propaganda, but that the fog of war makes things a bit opaque at times.

 

 

Still, it'd be great if they managed to take out the Moskva :-). That's why Hitler refused to consider names like Deutschland for German warships, too much of a prestige loss if they get sunk.

  #2902456 14-Apr-2022 17:26
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The cruiser ‘Moskva’ of the Black Sea Fleet was seriously damaged as a result of the detonation of ammunition that occurred as a result of a fire, the crew was evacuated,” Russian state media outlet TASS reported. ...

 

That report ought to be untrue, as no modern Navy should be operating a ship that doesn't have Insensitive Munitions** for its weapons systems. Surely the Russian Navy aren't twenty or more years behind the West on one of their flagship vessels?

 

 

 

** Insensitive Munitions are ones that don't "go off" in a fire or other situation, they explode only when initiated by an appropriate fuse. If exposed to a fire, they just burn.


kingdragonfly
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  #2902459 14-Apr-2022 17:28
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Sideface: The Guardian - Russian warship 'seriously damaged' after ammunition explosion as crew evacuated, Russian defence ministry says


I thought the Ukrainians sunk this ship two weeks ago.

The fog of war, or it's the Russian finally acknowledging the undeniably.

Regarding to ammo, the US Abrams M1 tank the ammo is stored in the turret behind the crew compartment. Specially designed armor panels blow outward should the ammo explode, reducing crew injuries.

Not so on Russian tanks. Russian tanks carry the ammo inside the hull. That's why when you see a blow up Russian tank, the turret is usually blown off violently.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised in Russian warship have a similar disregard.


neb

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  #2902466 14-Apr-2022 17:39
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PolicyGuy:

Insensitive Munitions are ones that don't "go off" in a fire or other situation, they explode only when initiated by an appropriate fuse. If exposed to a fire, they just burn.

 

 

OTOH if exposed to the detonation of a 150kg warhead from a cruise missile they'd explode quite nicely. So I'm tending to go with the Ukrainian version of events, with the caveat from my previous post.

tdgeek
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  #2902472 14-Apr-2022 18:27
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neb:
Sideface:

 

The ship was famously defied by Ukrainian troops on Snake Island at the start of the war

 

Given that the Vasily Bykov, the other ship involved, was claimed damaged or sunk but later turned up with no visible damage, I'd wait for further confirmation. Not saying it's Ukrainian propaganda, but that the fog of war makes things a bit opaque at times. Still, it'd be great if they managed to take out the Moskva :-). That's why Hitler refused to consider names like Deutschland for German warships, too much of a prestige loss if they get sunk.

 

Thats the essence of this conflict. And Putin is getting deeper and deeper into a problem. 


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