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elpenguino
3037 posts

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  #2919480 27-May-2022 16:07
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rugrat:

 

Create a problem, and then ask to be rewarded if get some relief from sanctions.

 

Moscow offers safe passage of Ukrainian food  exports in exchange for easing of sanctions.

 

https://www.rferl.org/amp/russia-ukrainian-food-exports-blockade-rudenko/31867169.html

 

Just be easier to give ships NATO escort, my view, but they keep tip toeing around Russia.

 

Realise Not as simplistic as both sides probably have mines in water as well. Getting food out by rail is not an option if Russia is striking the rail network.

 

At least shows the sanctions are hurting.

 

 

There's limits on other countries getting their warships into the Black Sea - the straits are closed in war time.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits

 

So there can't be any NATO ships.

 

But this is not war ........... it's a special operation, right?





Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21


K8Toledo
862 posts

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  #2919483 27-May-2022 16:13
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People keep forgetting NATO is a defensive coalition. The treaty itself ensures this.


Daynger
393 posts

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  #2919548 27-May-2022 20:12
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elpenguino:

 

There's limits on other countries getting their warships into the Black Sea - the straits are closed in war time.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits

 

So there can't be any NATO ships.

 

But this is not war ........... it's a special operation, right?

 

 

 

 

The thing about a US carrier strike group is that they can pretty much sail wherever they want whenever they want, not alot of countries have the will or resources to actually stop them.


K8Toledo
862 posts

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  #2919560 27-May-2022 20:56
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K8Toledo:

 

People keep forgetting NATO is a defensive coalition alliance . The treaty itself ensures this.

 


K8Toledo
862 posts

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  #2919621 27-May-2022 23:33
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During the Pentagon Press Briefing a few days ago John Kirby got quite emotional while answering a question about Russian war crimes.

 

 

 

 

 


kingdragonfly
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  #2919645 28-May-2022 09:17
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Here's a website called Atlantic Council

Note that Media Bias Fact Check rated them as center-right, pro-corporate and hawkish military perspectives.

Atlantic Council: The Russian invasion of Ukraine happened because the world gave Vladimir Putin a free pass in Syria

When Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine on February 24, I rushed to a protest organized by Ukrainians in Oxford, England. I, along with fellow Syrians, brought the Syrian revolution flag to the protests to demand an end to the invasion.

At the time, I struggled to put into words why I felt so strongly about Ukraine. Before long, I found out about the forceful Syrian participation in protests across Europe and the United States against the invasion. Pictures of the Syrian revolution flag appeared alongside Ukrainian flags waved at the demonstrations, showcasing identification with the values of freedom and democracy that Moscow is attacking yet again.

Those very values were obliterated when Russia intervened in Syria in 2015 to prop up the authoritarian and brutal regime of Bashar al-Assad. With the help of Moscow, the Assad regime forcibly displaced millions of Syrians; committed crimes against humanity and war crimes by bombing hospitals and schools in Idlib and Aleppo provinces; was largely responsible for killing at least half a million through indiscriminate shelling, massacres, crimes of torture, and sexual violence; led mass disinformation campaigns to depict the Syrian regime’s war against the Syrian people as a “war on terror”; and covered up the use of chemical weapons against civilians.

Syrians are well aware of the stark differences between Syria and Ukraine, and their solidarity with Ukraine doesn’t only come from a shared experience with Russian military occupation. This solidarity, or better yet, “identification,” with Ukraine, as Syrian political commentator Yassin Swehat calls it, comes from the increasing recognition that Ukraine’s plight arises from the world’s indifference to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s actions in Syria. Thus, Syrian solidarity with Ukraine comes from a belief that the invasion of Ukraine could have been averted had the world stopped Putin in Syria.

With flagrant impunity, Russia committed war crimes under the world’s watch, while also vetoing United Nations Security Council resolutions that could have stopped the bloodshed in Syria. Today, the carte blanche that Putin enjoyed in Syria has emboldened him to repeat a similar war on Ukrainians, with reports of civilian targets being bombed, including schools, hospitals, and residential areas across Ukraine. Just as the absence of a no-fly zone in Syria signaled to Russia and the Syrian regime that they wouldn’t be stopped from bombing Syrian civilians, NATO’s March 4 rejection of Kyiv’s proposal of a no-fly zone over Ukraine provides a green light for Russia to target civilians.

Worse yet, Putin’s war in Syria has encouraged him to lead a war of annexation on Ukraine, as Syrian writer and political dissident Yassin al-Haj Saleh recently argued. Saleh’s analysis sheds light on a terrifying implication of Putin’s attitude towards Ukraine. In the same way that Putin and the Assad regime deem pro-democracy Syrians as unforgivable terrorists deserving of death and destruction, Putin believes Ukraine and Ukrainians are undeserving of a legitimate and independent state.
...

Sideface
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  #2919650 28-May-2022 09:33
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BBC World Service - Ukraine's church declares independence from Russia

 

today

 


The Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) has declared its "full autonomy and independence" from the Moscow Patriarchate, condemning the stance Russian religious leaders have taken on the war in Ukraine.

 

"We disagree with the position of Patriarch Kirill of Moscow," the UOC said in a statement after a council meeting in Kyiv, referring to the head of the Russian Orthodox Church.

 

Kirill has openly voiced support for Russian President Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine launched on 24 February. ...

 

 

 

 

EDIT:  I think that this is important because it seems that the Church and State have become inseparable in modern Russia and Ukraine.

 

 





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Sideface
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  #2919938 29-May-2022 12:42
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BBC World Service - Russia won't use tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine, says ambassador to UK

 

today

 


Russia's ambassador in Britain has told the BBC he does not believe his country will use tactical nuclear weapons in the war against Ukraine.

 

Andrei Kelin said that according to Russian military rules, such weapons are not used in conflicts like this one.

 

Russia has very strict provision for their use, he said, mainly when the state's existence is threatened.

 

"It has nothing to do with the current operation," he told Sunday Morning. ...

 

In a sometimes terse exchange with the BBC's Clive Myrie, the ambassador also denied Russian forces were shelling civilians and said allegations of war crimes were a "fabrication".  ...

 



 

This is worrying double-speak - Russia has repeatedly taken calculated military actions that it has strongly denied planning, only days or hours earlier - eg the invasion of Ukraine.





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linw
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  #2919945 29-May-2022 13:07
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Yes, once a liar always a liar. You can't trust liars.


Rikkitic
Awrrr
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  #2919951 29-May-2022 13:45
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What happens if Russia does use a tactical nuke? Does this mean uncontrollable escalation?

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


tdgeek
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  #2920000 29-May-2022 14:13
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Rikkitic:

 

What happens if Russia does use a tactical nuke? Does this mean uncontrollable escalation?

 

 

 

 

He won't (subject to his liar bias)  If he did that it will give free reign for the West to nuke back, a war he cannot win. He can't grow his USSR 2.0 if its levelled. His only option is to ask for some territory for him to pull out. That will become "all we wanted, so comrades, we have won again" Small territory will suffice. Say that happened, he pulls out with is annexed 20 acre block. Sanctions wont stop till he pays for the damage, which he won't, and in the meantime UKR joins NATO. Or, UKR signs a USUKR-TO treaty. 

 

All supposition of course. I recall early on in the thread, UKR has wheat, steel and other stuff. Thats probably all levelled by now, so UKR will get foreign support to rebuild, and end of the day will be more West-USA than ever 


ezbee
1849 posts

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  #2921061 31-May-2022 18:05
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Seems grumpy old men had it in for Ukraine.
Putin, just a grumpy old man who should be shouting at clouds rather than having power over life and death.
Looking at Russian TV its like Planet Alex Jones. 

 

He was a Putin fan. Then Russians bombed his house
https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/05/31/russian-destruction-of-chernihiv/?swcfpc=1

 

""
“Was he telling you the old story about banderivtsi?”

 

I nodded in response. He added:

 

“All his life after he moved to Ukraine from Russia, having earned money at gold mines, he hated Ukraine. On Ukraine’s Independence Day he displays his Soviet flag and blasts Soviet music. We asked him why he moved here and he replied that he likes the local climate. The rest didn’t matter for him. However, now everything he owned was destroyed by his own brothers – the Russians!”
""

 

I'm not sure the 'was' in headline is correct, still processing the contradiction of his beliefs.


tdgeek
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  #2921070 31-May-2022 18:34
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Watched a piece today by Nick Paton Walsh, who speaks Russian. He feels that as Russia has apparently downgraded its goals, that they will rely on the West media losing interest as the war goes on and on. Bit like Covid, the biggest deal ever then we all move on. Russia will focus on a small few locations, and make that victory. Comrades are happy. I can see that outcome but I hope the West leaves the sanctions as permanent. When and if Putin is not the leader, and a new leader is good, then slowly they can be removed. Bottom line is that Russia, being a pseudo PRNK, needs to be neutralised. Pure and simple.


kingdragonfly
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  #2921078 31-May-2022 18:49
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With Finland's NATO bid, its border with Russia brings back old and painful memories

ABC News (Australia)

Finland's border with Russia could become one of the most watched in the world after a series of hostile threats from Moscow. It comes after the Nordic country made a bid to join the NATO Alliance.


tdgeek
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  #2921511 1-Jun-2022 17:38
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Just got in. I see on CNN that EU will ban Russian oil imports by the end of the year. That seems pretty huge, but not sure about gas. Although another report shows Russia is about to cut off Germany's gas.

 

India going hard importing discounted Russian gas and/or oil 


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