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MikeB4
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  #3145589 12-Oct-2023 09:32
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The Jewish peoples for millennia were also victims of empires. The centuries of persecution culminating with the horrors of the early 20th century brought about the desire and need for a Jewish homeland. The way it was done meant it was never going to be peaceful. Some actors in the process had ulterior motives and covert agendas.

 

I am no way condoning what is unfolding now, it is truly horrific. I am just trying to give context to why.  


 
 
 

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MikeB4
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  #3145593 12-Oct-2023 09:40
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Wombat1:

 

Curious as to why NZ has not labeled Hamas as a terrorist organization yet? 

 

 

Aotearoa follows UN Resolution 1373


MikeB4
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  #3145594 12-Oct-2023 09:47
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kingdragonfly:
Handle9: There's a thread for Trump. Can we keep this garbage, and your imported US politics, there please?


This is a borderline personal attack.

Trump may be the next president of the US.

He also asserted, without evidence, that the “same people” perpetrating violent attacks in Israel were entering the US through “our totally open southern border,” before speculating that some people crossing the border may be planning an “attack” on the US.

Next potential president + direct comment about Israel not relevant enough for you?

"ad hominem attack": This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument

 

I agree, it is very hard to discuss or study events so far in 21st century without reference to Donald Trump




kingdragonfly
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  #3145803 12-Oct-2023 15:17
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The Guardian: EU warns Elon Musk over ‘disinformation’ on X about Hamas attack

The EU has issued a warning to Elon Musk over the alleged disinformation about the Hamas attack on Israel, including fake news and “repurposed old images”, on X, which was formerly known as Twitter.

The letter arrives less than two months after sweeping new laws regulating content on social media seen in the EU came into force under the Digital Services Act.

If Musk, the owner of X, does not comply he can face a fine of 6% of his revenues from X or a total blackout in the EU.

Thierry Breton, the commissioner responsible for the act, wrote to Musk to urge him to ensure “a prompt, accurate, and complete response” to the request to contact Europol, the EU police enforcement agency, and “relevant law enforcement agencies” within the next 24 hours.

Breton reminded Musk that he needed to have “proportionate and effective mitigation measures to tackle the risks to public security and civic discourse stemming from disinformation”.

Following the terrorist attacks carried out by Hamas against Israel, we have indications your platform is being used to disseminate illegal content and disinformation in the EU,” wrote Breton.

“Public media and civil society organisations widely report instances of fake and manipulated images and facts circulating on your platform in the EU, such as repurposed old images of unrelated armed conflicts or military footage that actually originated from video games. This appears to be manifestly false or misleading information,” he said.

“Let me remind you that the Digital Services Act sets very precise obligations regarding content moderation,” Breton said, adding that changes in X’s public interest policies raised questions about his compliance to the new rules.

Musk quit a voluntary code of practice set up by the EU earlier this year
...

Kyanar
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  #3147020 13-Oct-2023 02:59
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MikeB4:

 

Aotearoa follows UN Resolution 1373

 

 

Which requires criminalising terrorism. To follow UNR1373, New Zealand must declare Hamas a terrorist organisation. Don't get me wrong, Israel has done it's fair share of pretty abhorrent stuff, but your response is not just wrong, it comes close to disinformation.


Kyanar
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  #3147022 13-Oct-2023 03:01
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kingdragonfly: The Guardian: EU warns Elon Musk over ‘disinformation’ on X about Hamas attack

 

What's that? Elon Musk amplifying fascist right wing garbage? Tell everyone something they don't know.

 

The sooner "X" goes bankrupt and takes him with it, the better Earth will be.




kingdragonfly
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  #3147053 13-Oct-2023 07:42
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Kyanar: What's that? Elon Musk amplifying fascist right wing garbage? Tell everyone something they don't know.


The sooner "X" goes bankrupt and takes him with it, the better Earth will be.



Shortly after Mus purchased Twitter, Twitter sent out a tweet saying it denied a rumor they were going to fire 75% of their staff. The next day Elon Musk has confirmed that he has fired over 80 per cent of the entire workforce of Twitter.

I guess Musk was accurate: he didn't fire 75%; it was 80%

Elon tried to evade responsibility, by being passive aggressive.

He responded to EU commissioner by saying: “Please list the violations you allude to on X, so that the public can see them.”

In a reference to the law’s requirement that platforms regulate their own content under the new laws the commissioner replied: “Up to you to demonstrate that you walk the talk.”

Handle9
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  #3147061 13-Oct-2023 08:09
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MikeB4: @kyanar don't accuse me of disinformation.

https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities/lists-associated-with-resolution-1373?nondesktop


Did you read that list?

Hamas isn’t there.

MikeB4
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  #3147088 13-Oct-2023 09:01
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Handle9:
MikeB4: @kyanar don't accuse me of disinformation.

https://www.police.govt.nz/advice/personal-community/counterterrorism/designated-entities/lists-associated-with-resolution-1373?nondesktop


Did you read that list?

Hamas isn’t there.


Of course I didn't read it 🙄

Hamas is not on that list because the UN has not declared Hamas a terrorist organisation. Aotearoa follows the UN resolutions.

Do I believe the UN should designate Hamas a terrorist organisation? Most certainly

freitasm
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  #3147089 13-Oct-2023 09:03
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A simple CTRL-F would allow you to find "Hamas" in that page. Not the political party but "Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades (IQB), Also known as the Military wing of Hamas, Ezzedeen Al-Qassam Brigades (EQB) or Izz al-Din Al-Qassem Brigades (IQB)"

 

Here is the entry page: Designated terrorist entities | New Zealand Police

 

There are two links of interest:

 

Lists associated with Resolutions 1267/1989/2253 and 1988 | New Zealand Police

 

Lists associated with Resolution 1373 | New Zealand Police

 

There are many documents linked from those pages, including Statement of Case to renew the designation of IQB (police.govt.nz):

 

"Since its designation was last renewed in September 2019, IQB have continued to incite and carry out terrorist attacks against Israeli targets." 





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SaltyNZ
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  #3147091 13-Oct-2023 09:05
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MikeB4:  Aotearoa follows the UN resolutions.

 

 

 

I guess that's part of a wider discussion - should Aotearoa legislate such that the Government may, at its discretion, independently make these sorts of resolutions? E.g. determining Hamas to be a terrorist organisation, or sanctioning individuals/organisations/countries for criminal actions?

 

The same question came up in the early days of the Ukraine invasion. The Security Council couldn't pass any resolutions for the obvious reason that Russia gets a veto. Although we should not go off half-cocked, it's clear that there are valid reasons why we should reserve the right to act independently.





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


MikeB4
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  #3147107 13-Oct-2023 09:48
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I hope the IDF capture the Hamas leadership and put them on trial for crimes against humanity.

I am conflicted with our position on this. I absolutely believe that Hamas are a terrorist organisation of the worse nature. However our government has a long history of backing the UN and acting on the UN resolutions. Our Ambassador to the UN should be calling on the General Assembly to make the declaration.

ezbee
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  #3147109 13-Oct-2023 09:53
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Because we are a nation 'without' vast high value resources easily extracted out of the ground.
Plus we are not inside either of the major rich high value western trading sectors, EU, USA. 

 

We have to be careful not to upset markets we need.
Ttiptoe around China, and we don't look to upset the worlds largest religions, or pretty much anyone. 

 

We follow UN resolutions and can then point to them.

 

If a major market fell though, and it was back to Iran, we would want to keep option open as it was in the past.
In distant past, Soviet Union, and how farmers could trade Soviet Utes or Tractors, was a thing.

 

Live meat trade for example which is horrible given the vast distances and ships that seem to sink easily,
has a lot of industry support as other options hit trade blocks.


kingdragonfly
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  #3147122 13-Oct-2023 10:35
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Washington Post: Trump faults Netanyahu, calls Hezbollah ‘very smart’ amid Israel war

Former president Donald Trump on Wednesday criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and called Hezbollah terrorist attackers “very smart” as Israel recovers from the deadliest attack it has suffered in 50 years.

Keeping up with politics is easy with The 5-Minute Fix Newsletter, in your inbox weekdays.
“He has been hurt very badly because of what’s happened here,” Trump said of Netanyahu in an interview for Fox News Radio’s Brian Kilmeade Show that was excerpted on television on Wednesday night. “He was not prepared. He was not prepared and Israel was not prepared.”
...
Later on Wednesday, Trump, the clear polling leader in the Republican presidential race, complimented the intelligence of Hezbollah, which has been designated a terrorist organization by the United States.

“You know, Hezbollah is very smart,” Trump said. “They’re all very smart.”
...
Mort Klein, the president of the Zionist Organization of America, which has honored Trump in the past, joined in the criticism in an interview on Thursday.

"It is reckless and irresponsible for Trump to have made negative comments about Israel — this is a time for unified support, not irrelevant comments that could give succor to Israel’s enemies,” Klein said. “I’m so ashamed of what he said. How does he expect support from people who care about Israel after making statements like this?”

Trump also disparaged Israel’s defense minister for calling attention to Hezbollah. “If you listen to this jerk, you would attack from the north,” Trump said.

His remarks also drew a rebuke on Thursday from the Israeli government’s communications minister, Shlomo Karhi. “Shameful that a man like that, a former U.S. president, abets propaganda and disseminates things that wound the spirit of Israel’s fighters and its citizens,” Karhi told the country’s Channel 13. “We don’t have to bother with him and the nonsense he spouts.”
...

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