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michaelmurfy
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  #3080803 29-May-2023 13:24
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aj6828: Is a good router

 

Hey all - this isn't a router recommendation page and like I say is off-topic.

 

Also, @aj6828 please don't recommend the Edgerouter or even some more advanced routers as stated above. The Edgerouter is largely out of support now with Ubiquiti really not updating them software wise (or manufacturing them anymore) and Mikrotiks can be harder to configure so not the best for everyone especially since one configuration slip-up can expose your router, your network etc to the internet. Please post in https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=66&topicid=197871 for router recommendations.





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Referral Links: Octopus Energy ($50 Credit) | Tesla | Quic Broadband (use R122101E7CV7Q for free setup)

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You will find anything you want at MightyApe (affiliate link).
studdart
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  #3080818 29-May-2023 13:47
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toejam316: The question is what are you trying to achieve with gigabit+ speeds? 

 

At the moment, I'm just trying to match the speeds I had last week with my previous provider. That was a 1Gb connection. I now have a 2Gb hyperfibre connection with Quic. I would expect, at the very least, I should be able to achieve similar speeds with the same hardware (excepting PPPoE). Even with PPPoE I would not expect my upload speed to be 300Mbps given the CPU usage is less than 5%.


CYaBro
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  #3080880 29-May-2023 14:32
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studdart:

 

toejam316: The question is what are you trying to achieve with gigabit+ speeds? 

 

At the moment, I'm just trying to match the speeds I had last week with my previous provider. That was a 1Gb connection. I now have a 2Gb hyperfibre connection with Quic. I would expect, at the very least, I should be able to achieve similar speeds with the same hardware (excepting PPPoE). Even with PPPoE I would not expect my upload speed to be 300Mbps given the CPU usage is less than 5%.

 

 

You're not alone studdart.

 

With my previous fibre provider, I was able to consistently get over 900 down and 400 up.
That was a DHCP connection.

 

Since switching to Quic and PPPoE I now only get at most 800 down and 320 up.

 

I have a UDM SE which has a 2.5GB RJ45 WAN port.

 

Setting MTU to 1500 didn't make a difference in my testing.
The CPU usage on the UDM SE never goes above 15-17%

 

I was going to move to 2GB Hyperfibre with Quic but if I can't even get gigabit speeds there may be no point.
I'm not too worried about the small drop in speed as we haven't noticed any real difference in day-to-day use.

 

Latency has improved and our monthly cost has dropped. :)

 

 




studdart
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  #3080887 29-May-2023 14:52
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CYaBro:

 

You're not alone studdart.

 

With my previous fibre provider, I was able to consistently get over 900 down and 400 up.
That was a DHCP connection.

 

Since switching to Quic and PPPoE I now only get at most 800 down and 320 up.

 

I have a UDM SE which has a 2.5GB RJ45 WAN port.

 

Setting MTU to 1500 didn't make a difference in my testing.
The CPU usage on the UDM SE never goes above 15-17%

 

I was going to move to 2GB Hyperfibre with Quic but if I can't even get gigabit speeds there may be no point.
I'm not too worried about the small drop in speed as we haven't noticed any real difference in day-to-day use.

 

Latency has improved and our monthly cost has dropped. :)

 



That's pretty worrying @CYaBro. Your gear is much better than mine and I'd expect you to be getting the most out of the connection. I just ran another speed test... 300Mbps. Thankfully while I was writing this message another one test went back to the normal rate. Uploads are still very very slow and consistently below 300Mbps for me. Ping is also up considerably from Orcon. I just saw that Orcon has the 2GB hyperfibre connection for the same cost now, $129.

@quic, would you mind commenting? I love the idea of Quic, but I can't rely on it right now and I have to be able to. I don't really want to jump ship without giving Quic a fair shot.


michaelmurfy
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  #3080917 29-May-2023 15:46
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@CYaBro So interestingly I've not seen any issues here. Remote Quic connection with a USG Pro (so technically less powerful than a Dream Machine) is getting 940/510Mbit on Speedtests and have not noticed any performance drops in overnight backups. Right now at the remote host I've only got a Celeron based Synology NAS to test to but all appears all good there with no bottlenecks in download / upload. I get similar performance on that connection as I do to my home 2degrees connection.

 

@studdart You really need to troubleshoot your connection more before you can come up with the conclusion that there is something wrong with the ISP end. Sure you can jump ship back to Orcon but if you have an end user problem then this is not going to fix things for you. The idea here is Quic is a self managed ISP so end user troubleshooting is expected. Please do additional troubleshooting.

 

Not saying there is not an issue here on Quic's end as maybe there is a bit of a bug with one of the BNG's but additional troubleshooting is needed here too. I'm not seeing any issues with 3 Wellington based connections at all.





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Referral Links: Octopus Energy ($50 Credit) | Tesla | Quic Broadband (use R122101E7CV7Q for free setup)

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studdart
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  #3080922 29-May-2023 16:03
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michaelmurfy: @studdart You really need to troubleshoot your connection more before you can come up with the conclusion that there is something wrong with the ISP end. Sure you can jump ship back to Orcon but if you have an end user problem then this is not going to fix things for you. The idea here is Quic is a self managed ISP so end user troubleshooting is expected. Please do additional troubleshooting.

 

Not saying there is not an issue here on Quic's end as maybe there is a bit of a bug with one of the BNG's but additional troubleshooting is needed here too. I'm not seeing any issues with 3 Wellington based connections at all.

 

I fully appreciate that it's self supported. That one of the reasons I joined Quic in the first place. I will try and get a direct connection from a high powered PC with PPPoE later this evening, I would love if it's just the router. That's a fairly easy fix. And I will be the first to post here and report back if that is the case.

For now, the speeds I'm getting directly correlate to their lower tier "Sprinter" plan. If I had that plan, I'd actually be pretty happy, 900/400 is very close to what I'm seeing. Forget my download speed for a minute, that's close enough to what I'd expect. I'm not getting past 300Mbps upload and I really should be with a hyperfibre 2Gbps up/down connection even if I'm limited to 1Gbps with my current router (as I said, cpu is less than 5% constantly now).

 

The only thing that has changed in my setup is the ISP. It's totally possible I have something misconfigured, but it's not in any of Quic's docs and I don't see any issues in Quic's online diagnostics. Apart from trying the connection directly from a PC (to remove the router from the equation) what more trouble shooting should I be doing? I do not mean that passive agressively, I would genuinely love to learn of anything else I can do to figure this out.


toejam316
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  #3080924 29-May-2023 16:07
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So just to be clear, when you say that's the only thing changed, have you had a hyperfibre ONT installed?




Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.




studdart
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  #3080927 29-May-2023 16:11
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toejam316: So just to be clear, when you say that's the only thing changed, have you had a hyperfibre ONT installed?

 

Great callout, yes I have. Sorry for not mentioning it. I didn't have anything to do with it's configuration or install, which is why it slipped my mind. The Chorus technician seemed satisfied it was working correctly when he left.


michaelmurfy
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  #3080937 29-May-2023 16:30
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Actually there may be something a little iffy here @quic

 

Take this with a grain of salt given this Synology is not the quickest being Celeron based but it is well connected with a LAC to the main switch at this property with a router that has been configured but done a few tests via Speedtest CLI along with the Speedtest Tracker application that I just popped onto it and all seem to be very similar with upload being slower than usual. Overnight backup looks like it completed with an average speed of 400Mbit so was indeed maxing out my VPN.

 

 

I don't have any historical data as I wasn't monitoring this but on 2 devices I have access to on this network they both get around 100Mbit upload to domestic hosts and this is evident over my site to site VPN too where I am only getting about 90-130Mbit (from Quic to 2degrees).

 

Again, grain of salt. I have no real way of fully doing remote troubleshooting of this connection outside of tools that are available to me on the Synology itself and over my site to site VPN. It is always important to do your own troubleshooting to determine if it is a local problem or a problem with your ISP but based on 3 reports so far having similar upload speed constraints I suspect something funky is going on.

 

This may give you a little bit more of an answer @studdart - I was not seeing this the other night where I was physically at this site doing performance tests so this appears to be a newish problem.





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Referral Links: Octopus Energy ($50 Credit) | Tesla | Quic Broadband (use R122101E7CV7Q for free setup)

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fe31nz
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  #3081207 30-May-2023 03:05
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What sort of packets are being used for the speed tests?  If they are full length then you can be having fragmentation happening which is usually done only by the CPU with no offloading possible, and slows the traffic quite a lot.  On a PPPoE connection, the PPP software does not send you any "ICMP packet too big" messages to tell you that it is fragmenting IPv4 packets, and it will silently drop over long IPv6 packets (which breaks IPv6 - this is a nasty bug).  It would pay to try various smaller packet sizes and see if that helps.  If so, then the only good fix is to get the MTU on the PPPoE connection up to 1500 - which also needs the VLAN 10 (if that is used) and underlying Ethernet connections to be set to MTU 1508 to allow for the PPPoE headers.

 

When you were seeing CPU usage of around 50%, you should note that your router is a dual core device, so 50% total CPU usage is an indicator that one core is maxed out, probably by some software that can not use or can not benefit from using multiple cores.  Typically, this is the PPP software but it can be other things too.

 

It looks like the RT-AC68U is supported by OpenWRT, so you could consider using that instead of the Asus firmware.  It should be able to do MTU 1508/1500 for you:

 

https://openwrt.org/toh/asus/rt-ac68u

 

But check first that OpenWRT does work with the offloading hardware.


studdart
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  #3081223 30-May-2023 07:29
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michaelmurfy:

 

This may give you a little bit more of an answer @studdart - I was not seeing this the other night where I was physically at this site doing performance tests so this appears to be a newish problem.

 

 

Thank you very much @michaelmurfy for doing that test. I won't read too much into it but I will hold onto the thread that I'm not going crazy after all. I did some more testing myself last night and noticed that the upload speed is always dropping off very sharply. I did wonder again about the router, but it's CPU is now less than 5% with no real peaks and it's temperature is normal. The Chorus graph display is actually one of the better ones for showing the speed drop off. It starts off at the speed I would expect, 900ish, then drops fast. I can see this pattern with multiple speedtest providers and servers:

 

 

fe31nz:
When you were seeing CPU usage of around 50%, you should note that your router is a dual core device, so 50% total CPU usage is an indicator that one core is maxed out, probably by some software that can not use or can not benefit from using multiple cores.  Typically, this is the PPP software but it can be other things too

 

Yup, it was the QoS "feature". That's disabled now and CPU usage is near zero. Both cores are reported separately which is actually pretty useful for this sort of issue. This graph covers two back to back speed tests:

 

 


studdart
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  #3081242 30-May-2023 08:24
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Okay, I've removed the Asus router from the equation. I connected a PC directly to the ONT with a short cat-6 patch cable. Setup a new PPPoE connection and this is what I got:

 

 

@quic, something is clearly wrong.


quic
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  #3081257 30-May-2023 08:57
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Hey folks! Apologies for the delay in response.

 

@studdart Could you please PM me with your account details (name on account and address is fine) and I'll get some eyes across for you. :-)





Quic Broadband
quic.nz - The telco who puts you in charge!

 

 

 

 


studdart
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  #3081262 30-May-2023 09:10
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quic:

 

Hey folks! Apologies for the delay in response.

 

@studdart Could you please PM me with your account details (name on account and address is fine) and I'll get some eyes across for you. :-)

 

 

Given this is a basically self supported product, I'm not in the slightest upset about the response speed! Thank you for getting some eyes on this though, I've PM'ed.


CYaBro
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  #3082293 30-May-2023 10:57
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@quic have you changed something this morning?

 

I'm now getting just under 500 upload! :)
Download also got to bang on 900 in one test.


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