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fahrenheit
757 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #347489 3-Jul-2010 13:04
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MrFlower: the V10 were made in Japan... not sure about the V20.

Why did Panasonic moved away from one sheet glass design? I thought this would have carried on from V10 to V20? Can anyone explain? is this part of cost saving from Panasonic?


I think you might have that backwards.

V10 = twin sheets of glass with the outer sheet extending all the way (almost) to the edge of the bezel.
V20 = single sheet of glass.

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slapnutz

38 posts

Geek


  #347505 3-Jul-2010 15:08
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Once again thanks guys.

 

Its the weekend and Im stuck with the flu and pretty much feel like absolute crap. My quest of seeing the 46" version of the Panny V series plasma will have to wait another weekend. ... unless I make a miraculous recover by Sunday.

Its the first I've heard of the "contrast ratio loss" issue. How serious is it? I'll try and hopefully find one thats after April 2010 as mentioned.

Off to bed.Frown

fahrenheit
757 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #347517 3-Jul-2010 16:04
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slapnutz:

Its the first I've heard of the "contrast ratio loss" issue. How serious is it? I'll try and hopefully find one thats after April 2010 as mentioned.


The minimum luminance level (how dark the deepest black appears) degrades rapidly over the first few hundred/thousand hours. Black becomes more gray. Its a design flaw and one that is unlikely to be fixed for models that suffer from it.

Whether it will affect you in the long term all depends on your powers of perception and the environment in which you view the TV. If you do lots of daytime viewing or watching the TV with plenty of lights on, then it will be more difficult for you to notice.
Like all issues of this nature, it doesn't tend to register until you notice it or it is pointed out to you. Once you know what you are looking at, it cannot be 'unseen' and your enjoyment quickly diminishes.

What I find most disappointing about the whole thing is that out of the box performance is excellent but in a very short time becomes good - poor. This has meant that reviews (which are done with new units with only a few hundred hours on them) gush about how good the TVs are, but it doesn't stay that way for long.

Cnet are doing long term testing on last years and 2010 models -
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20001640-1.html?tag=mncol;txt

If I'd known how bad and how soon the problem manifested itself, I'd have saved myself some money and bought a 50" G10 instead of a V10 (both suffer the problem).

Unfortunately, despite all that, the Panasonics don't have any real competition in the plasma market. With the discountinuation of the Kuros, they are the best you'll find.




Dunnersfella
4032 posts

Uber Geek


  #347558 3-Jul-2010 20:02
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Okay - here's my view.

1: Is your room lit brightly (sun shining on the panel)?
If so, the Sony KDL46EX500 will offer less reflection than the Samsung as it has a matt finish to the screen. This is great in brightly lit conditions, however it suffers when viewed from the side... and really, the colours simply don't pop like those on the Samsung.
Personally, I find the bezel distracting as it almost looks warped...
And yep, quality appears to have dropped a bit in the Sony range.
Pity.

2: The Samsung is a nice TV, and my choice over the Sony. If I was to go to LCD. They won't handle brightly lit rooms as well as the Sony's though. However, if I was looking for an LCD that handled bright lights, I'd probably go LG.

3: 100Hz on LCD does seem like a great feature for gaming UNTIL you switch the display to 'gaming mode'. Then the TV defaults back to 'standard' and not 'smooth'. This means you don't get the benefit of frame creation... And no, you can't run it on gaming mode with the 100Hz running.
*sigh*

4: The V20 range of plasmas are my current TV's of choice. Sure they aren't THX certified (like the VT20's) so there's a few less calibration options. But hey, it's not a deal breaker to me.
The picture is better (colour / motion etc). And it can smooth 24p panning shots out to drop the juddering if that's an issue to you. It has never been a problem for me... but they claim it works... so meh.

My opinion - get the V20. Either 46" or 50".
Best buy - best panel.

slapnutz

38 posts

Geek


  #347699 4-Jul-2010 16:21
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Just another quick question, do LED LCD tvs suffer from the similar Contrast loss as Plamas mentioned here?

(or does a Plasma even with constrast loss, still have a better contrast than LED LCDs?)

fahrenheit
757 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #347701 4-Jul-2010 16:26
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No, its only a design flaw with Panasonic plasmas.

LEDs have different shortfalls. Its just a matter of knowing what to expect and choosing the best compromise.

Dunnersfella
4032 posts

Uber Geek


  #347756 4-Jul-2010 19:05
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Basically - there's no perfect TV.
Choose the picture you like the look of and you should be just fine :-)



JimmyH
2738 posts

Uber Geek


  #347782 4-Jul-2010 20:28
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I tend to go with most of the other posters here. I have a Samsung LCD and a Panasonic LCD and am very happy with them both. The gap between LCD and Plasma has closed a lot in the last few years, and it is a question of personal taste to pick between them.

From my research before I bought, plasma's have a few issues (loss of contrast over time, weight - which may matter depending on where you plan to install it, and potential for static images to burn in on some models. LCD's also have issues (muddy greys instead of dark blacks - although this is much better for newer LEDs, poorer viewing angle - although this has improved a lot). My take was that LCDs had a marginal edge for gaming and plasmas for movie watching - althought there wasn't much to pick between them.

Either Panny or Samsung will lilkely be a good choice. I have recently heard better things about LG models from people I know, but haven't tried one.


/Rant
Personally, I used to be a big Sony Fanboi, right back to the days of Beta VCRs. I now avoid Sony products like the plague, right across the board - they still want a premium price for product that is distinctly second-tier in a lot of cases, quality has slipped a lot, they have a mania for proprietary formats/connectors/standards, overcharge ludicrously in perpherals, and seem to have a deep-seated contempt for their customers. Plus, their anti-consumer lobbying, on their own and as part of the MPAA/RIAA etc means that I have another reason to avoid giving them my money.
/ Rant off


slapnutz

38 posts

Geek


  #349658 9-Jul-2010 20:53
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Ok guys, I managed to get some time off on Thursday and did a quick run around Auckland. One thing I noticed was that the Samsung LCD had MUCH better blacks than the Panasonic Plasma???

Appliance Shed - Henderson: Samsung s6 46" & Panasonic V series 50"

The samsung had really nice blacks in the demo, the Panny was much more grey. The saleman was able to confirm the Panny was at 100% Constrast and 50% Brightness. Couldnt find the remote to check the Samsung. Staff blamed the lighting in the shop.

 

DSE Powerhouse - manukau

Same story, Samsung 46" vs Panny 50". Once again the Panny was set at 100% constrast and 50% brightness. Once again staff couldnt check the Samsung settings.

 

JB hifi Manukau mall

Still running of Component Undecided. (above two were HDMI) One thing I did do was freeze the bluray movie and the Panny V series 50" and much less noise than either the Samsung 50" Plasma or the Samsung LED. However the blacks did appear much better here... maybe because no Samsung LCDs were next to it??? Staff said Panny was "assembled" in China.

 

Harvey Normans - Manukau

This was the only place that had the actual Panny 46" V series on display. Couldnt really compare it since the entire shelf was just Plasmas.

 

So just wondering people, what happened? Ive always read that one area Plasma were better was darker blacks??... Was it just crappy store setup or something else?

 

Lastly, what would the wattage difference be between the Panny 46" Plasma and a 46" LCD? Roughly?

 

Cheers.

smac
280 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #349664 9-Jul-2010 21:13
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I personally wouldn't buy a plasma if there was ANY chance of it being used for gaming.....and I own a Panasonic plasma.

I've seen too many 1st hand cases of screen burn from HUD's.

Talking 'picture quality' and 'gaming screen' in same sentence doesn't fly (in my opinion). You don't need top quality picture for gaming, you want fast response, low reflectivity.

tkr001
405 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #349672 9-Jul-2010 21:33
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slapnutz: Ok guys, I managed to get some time off on Thursday and did a quick run around Auckland. One thing I noticed was that the Samsung LCD had MUCH better blacks than the Panasonic Plasma???



Tui

fahrenheit
757 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #349717 10-Jul-2010 10:09
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slapnutz: Ok guys, I managed to get some time off on Thursday and did a quick run around Auckland. One thing I noticed was that the Samsung LCD had MUCH better blacks than the Panasonic Plasma???


Golden rule -
Plasma looks washed out in a brightly lit shop, nice and dark at home with the lights out.
LCD looks vibrant in a brightly lit shop and washed out at home with the lights out.

You cannot judge picture quality in this manner. Its crucial to understand this before you walk in the door.
I've driven past the Appliance shed in Papatoetoe after hours and seen all their TVs still on. Terrible place to critique TVs.

smac: I personally wouldn't buy a plasma if there was ANY chance of it being used for gaming.....and I own a Panasonic plasma.

I've seen too many 1st hand cases of screen burn from HUD's.


You've seen permanent burn-in on a modern plasma? I don't think so. Imagine retention is a nuisance but its not burn-in and its not a reason to choose LCD over plasma.

smac
280 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #349722 10-Jul-2010 10:34
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Perhaps burn-in is over-stating it. However yes,  I have seen HUD 'overlay'...retention, whatever you want to call it, on modern plasmas. Annoying enough to distract when you revert to TV/movie. Maybe it's not permanent, but if it distracts, why put up with it?

fahrenheit
757 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #349725 10-Jul-2010 10:45
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smac: but if it distracts, why put up with it?


Image retention can be combatted (usually within minutes). LCDs shortcomings in comparison cannot.

slapnutz

38 posts

Geek


  #349738 10-Jul-2010 12:26
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Thanks guys.

I've seen two burn-in senarios with Plasmas myself.


1) About 2 months ago when helping cousin find an LCD. Noel Lemmings - Westgate. The saleman showed us the new 2010 Panasonics and said burn in was a thing of the past. However we noticed that the damn MENU was already showing up burnt in. Needless to say the saleman was shocked and went off to call Panasonic to see what the hell was going on. Didnt hear back from the saleman coz we left the shop.


2) Friend bought a $1700 42" 720p Panny plasma about 3 years ago. 99% for gaming on xbox360. Some time after, he left it on and got MENU (not game hud) burn in. However all he had to do was leave it off for a few hours and it was good as new. Also its been about 3 yeras and I havent seen the contrast loss... well as far as personal perception goes.


So I guess it just depends on the circumstance. Wish the sutpid SED tech wasnt stalled.

Thanks again.


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