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Nate wants an iphone
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Reply # 254190 8-Sep-2009 21:53
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b0rg:
Lower cost means a reduction in quality of work done, and/or a reduction in the skill level of those doing te work, as people leave for better paid roles overseas or in other industries.

Not only is this whole fiasco bad for the contractors, it is also bad for the industry, and bad for the end users who will have to use the reduced quality products and services from less skilled staff.






This is completely unrelated - however it is a common theme here, in that case why do people keep demanding cheaper services? 




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  Reply # 254298 9-Sep-2009 11:08
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No completely unrelated, this is economics..

As shown by Vision Stream placing ads with WINZ for linesmen.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 254529 9-Sep-2009 20:50
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MikeyPI: 

Unions came about for this very reason, people......



To improve working conditions to the point that the downers/transfield business model is no longer viable?

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  Reply # 254607 9-Sep-2009 23:11
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bjhoogs:
MikeyPI: 

Unions came about for this very reason, people......



To improve working conditions to the point that the downers/transfield business model is no longer viable?





Whos says its not viable? It may not be the most profitable, but sometimes thats not everything. Ethics should mean something.

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  Reply # 254762 10-Sep-2009 14:29
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MikeyPI:

Whos says its not viable? It may not be the most profitable, but sometimes thats not everything. Ethics should mean something.



Downers, Transfield, Visionstream, Chorus, and Telecom.  The market.  

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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 254820 10-Sep-2009 18:09
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Where did they state that? Telecom restructed contract to milk every cent to try and combat their ever declining stock value.


This is about profit margins, not the models viability.

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  Reply # 254877 10-Sep-2009 21:07

when downers and transfield had the contract it sort of even out and they were able to make a profit (downers made a small profit)

say when a inside planet tech would build a new rack he would need to connect the power and only a reged sparkie allowed to work on the telecom network can connect it. in the code there would be "enough" money to pay for him. as vs had built it into the code. pffft bulls^^3.

i wouldnt be able to do an mobile faults. it would pay 220$ per fault now a fault could take you a day or two to find. i might need to get some special test equipment in to test the cables etc. to hire one of the machines was quoted the other week at 250$ a day so im already 30 in the read

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  Reply # 254982 11-Sep-2009 11:17
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BioNz: when downers and transfield had the contract it sort of even out and they were able to make a profit (downers made a small profit)

say when a inside planet tech would build a new rack he would need to connect the power and only a reged sparkie allowed to work on the telecom network can connect it. in the code there would be "enough" money to pay for him. as vs had built it into the code. pffft bulls^^3.

i wouldnt be able to do an mobile faults. it would pay 220$ per fault now a fault could take you a day or two to find. i might need to get some special test equipment in to test the cables etc. to hire one of the machines was quoted the other week at 250$ a day so im already 30 in the read



Ummm translation please?


Incomprehensible....

gwh

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  Reply # 254986 11-Sep-2009 11:30
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BioNZ- I don't need a translation I know where you're coming from....I used to work on cmar and spanline faults that needed 3-4 people and days of work. I'd be broke in a month at $220 per fault.

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  Reply # 255080 11-Sep-2009 20:23
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I see that people taking the $220 per fault job gambling that the job can be done for less than that.
Don't for get to add running cost on your van to get to that job.

I think the 'on call' hours are not very well compensation when waiting for work, compared to the older contracts.

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  Reply # 255142 12-Sep-2009 09:58
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I have to wait 2 weeks to get broadband connected in the north shore as a result of the strike...

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  Reply # 255164 12-Sep-2009 11:40
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gwh: BioNZ- I don't need a translation I know where you're coming from....I used to work on cmar and spanline faults that needed 3-4 people and days of work. I'd be broke in a month at $220 per fault.





That doesnt mean the model is flawed.... You (and others) are confusing the business model with pricing structure, which are completely different.


What I'm saying is the Network Operator - contractor - employee model is viable, however with the set pricing, it makes it uneconomic in some parts.


Im unsure if the Network Operator - contractor - contractor model is that viable for anyone execpt the Network op...

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  Reply # 255279 12-Sep-2009 23:23
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MikeyPI:



That doesnt mean the model is flawed.... You (and others) are confusing the business model with pricing structure, which are completely different.


What I'm saying is the Network Operator - contractor - employee model is viable, however with the set pricing, it makes it uneconomic in some parts.


Im unsure if the Network Operator - contractor - contractor model is that viable for anyone execpt the Network op...



I think what BioNZ and GWH are saying is that they are unhappy with the Visionstream model because it means taking on more risk.  The laws of averages meant that Downers took on many faults that were very cheap to fix and some very expensive faults.  Overall the expensive ones were subsidised by the cheap ones and they ultimately made a profit.  When dealing with fewer faults there is a greater risk that you may be unlucky and get too many expensive faults, which will mean you get paid less than your costs.  There is also a possibility that a technician may get a disproportionately large number of cheap, easy to fix faults, meaning he earns more than everyone else.  This sort of uncertainty, while common in business, is foreign and unsettling to those who have always been employees and according to my understanding is the primary issue.  The certainty of going to work and getting paid has been taken away from them.  That does not mean that they will not be able to make money, but it does mean that they will have to gamble their place in the industry and the price of a van and equipment, on bad luck and visionstream not ripping them off.

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  Reply # 255282 12-Sep-2009 23:32
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MikeyPI: Where did they state that? Telecom restructed contract to milk every cent to try and combat their ever declining stock value.


This is about profit margins, not the models viability.



In the real world it is profit margins that determine whether or not a business is viable.
I don't expect telecom to pay more for a service than they have to any more than I expect Downers to run their business at a loss to subsidise the people who worked for them.  

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  Reply # 255557 14-Sep-2009 11:35
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I've had problems with my internet for the past 2 MONTHS and the technicians keep telling me they'll call me "early next week"

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