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  #332962 21-May-2010 14:27
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Ragnor:
What makes you think that the winning public/private partnership proposals for each regoin won't deliver a better core network with much higher CIR per subscriber than Telecom's current core network?


I was mostly referring to the international bandwidth costs that being in New Zealand entail. Whether you put it down to lack of large amounts of competition in the international transit market, or to the fact we're a content sink a long way form our content is relatively immaterial.

However from what I know about core network design and cost of fibre, 10G interfaces (and higher), building a thicker aggregation and core network than Telecom has at the moment wouldn't be cheap...

Cheers - N




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Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.




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  #332965 21-May-2010 14:35
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exportgoldman:
doozy:
exportgoldman:
I have two issues with this

1. Telecom need to grow some balls, police this plan and kick off the stupidly high users, so they can keep the plan alive like they said they would.

2. Things like online backups (e.g. ShadowProtect v4) are now back on the drawing board because NZ doesn't offer split local/international traffic and have no unlimited plans.

I honestly expected more from Telecom, it's not like they didn't know what they were 'unleashing' as they had all the Go Large data and previous experience, and a sister company in Australia offering unlimited plans.

Oh Telecom, my new XT call failures like a champ, and now your taking my broadband away - can I still dial 111 if I need to?


We didn't want to have a Fair Use Policy for this plan, Go Large had one and it didn't really work out for the best.  So with that, we can't just kick people off for having high usage without stating its a possibility at the point of sign up.  Which opens the debate of how much is too much.


Go Large didn't fail because of it's fair use policy, it failed because of Telecom falsly advertising the service, I'm sure if you wanted to you could have keep a Big Time type service in place but put limits in place as other ISP's and your sister company in Australia have done.

Our work used Big Time for the caches for Windows Updates and YouTube with not that much international usage.

Every product I've purchased from Telecom this year has failed. I'm glad the government is going to hammer Telecom for it's inability to perform and give it's lunch to someone else as you guys seem to have no idea even with your past experience how to roll out telco services without massive failure. And this is coming from someone who thought this was the year of the Telecom comeback.





I know Go Large didn't fail because of the fair use policy, I just said it didn't work.

Fundamentally changing the conditions of the plan was an option, it didn't really cover the important issues enough for it to be a viable exercise

All of the Telecom BB plans have access to our various caching solutions, not just Big Time.

Australia is a very different environment from a telco perspective right now and AAPT is in a very different place in that environment compared to Telecom.

I'm sorry you feel that way, again did not want to do this, we just wanted to try something different and unfortunately it just didn't work out.




Tarawera Ultra 2015 done, bring on 2016

 
 
 
 


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  #332967 21-May-2010 14:39
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crazed:
brandonruscoe: Exactly, upgrading intl lines would be much better than getting fibre that will make us blow a 20gb cap in a couple hours,  The speed around NZ is getting much better, i get around 6.5-7mbit on ADSL, if they invest in a better cable we could have no data caps and good consistant speed.


I can't see data caps being removed at all, not within 10 yrs even with new international cables.


Yeah, no data caps at all is probably unrealistic.  But government investment in getting us better & cheaper international bandwidth could at least give us reasonable plans instead of the high cost/low cap plans we have now.


I Am Jack's Inflamed Sense of Rejection

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  #332972 21-May-2010 14:46
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exportgoldman:
doozy:
exportgoldman:
I have two issues with this

1. Telecom need to grow some balls, police this plan and kick off the stupidly high users, so they can keep the plan alive like they said they would.

2. Things like online backups (e.g. ShadowProtect v4) are now back on the drawing board because NZ doesn't offer split local/international traffic and have no unlimited plans.

I honestly expected more from Telecom, it's not like they didn't know what they were 'unleashing' as they had all the Go Large data and previous experience, and a sister company in Australia offering unlimited plans.

Oh Telecom, my new XT call failures like a champ, and now your taking my broadband away - can I still dial 111 if I need to?


We didn't want to have a Fair Use Policy for this plan, Go Large had one and it didn't really work out for the best.? So with that, we can't just kick people off for having high usage without stating its a possibility at the point of sign up.? Which opens the debate of how much is too much.


Go Large didn't fail because of it's fair use policy, it failed because of Telecom falsly advertising the service, I'm sure if you wanted to you could have keep a Big Time type service in place but put limits in place as other ISP's and your sister company in Australia have done.

Our work used Big Time for the caches for Windows Updates and YouTube with not that much international usage.

Every product I've purchased from Telecom this year has failed. I'm glad the government is going to hammer Telecom for it's inability to perform and give it's lunch to someone else as you guys seem to have no idea even with your past experience how to roll out telco services without massive failure. And this is coming from someone who thought this was the year of the Telecom comeback.





I love it when people think they know what happened, Telecom didnt falsely advertise the service for Go Large the developer of the traffic shaping machinery did not manage to deliver what was required by Telecom at the time. The only thing Telecom were guilty of was panicking and releasing the product anyway despite thier testers (ne included) telling them the product wasent right. It was a marketing decision which was driven by threats from the commerce commision.

Incidentally people like you are probably to blame for the loss of this current service. Workplaces should definitly not be using a product of this type, I remember in the Go Large time alot of the huge downloaders were businesses trying to do thing on the cheap at the expence of the average consumer.

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  #332976 21-May-2010 14:51

Why not give people unlimited off peak data

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  #332978 21-May-2010 14:54
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Flashcards: The current Telecom monopoly was gifted to them by the taxpayer and now this same taxpayer is being hurt by the very same company. I mean, with anything other than a total monopoly (I don't care what it's called by the government or media, it IS a monopoly)


I love how this word is used so much for Telecom as people clearly dont understand what a monopoly is, if a certain firm is the only one that can produce a certain good, it has a monopoly in the market for that good.

There is absolutly nothing stoping TCL, or any other player from building infrastructure to compete with Telecom but the truth is they wont because they dont have to so how does Telecom have a monopoly? Answer is they dont.

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  #332979 21-May-2010 14:58
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Why is it when Pacific Fibre announced their plans for a Trans-Pacific cable Telecom/SCC came out and said that the international haulage bottleneck/cost wasn't the determining factor on Broadband connections, yet now we hear that it is the main determinant on data caps?

 
 
 
 


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  #332982 21-May-2010 15:01
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ronindanbo:
Flashcards: The current Telecom monopoly was gifted to them by the taxpayer and now this same taxpayer is being hurt by the very same company. I mean, with anything other than a total monopoly (I don't care what it's called by the government or media, it IS a monopoly)


I love how this word is used so much for Telecom as people clearly dont understand what a monopoly is, if a certain firm is the only one that can produce a certain good, it has a monopoly in the market for that good.

There is absolutly nothing stoping TCL, or any other player from building infrastructure to compete with Telecom but the truth is they wont because they dont have to so how does Telecom have a monopoly? Answer is they dont.
I don't know where you get your definition, but in economic terms, a monopoly exists when a single producer has sufficient market power to control the market. In the case of Telecom, this comes across because the barriers to entry - building another network - is high enough to make it uneconomical...

Hence it is a perfect example of a monopoly and why there is regulations in place to reduce the monopoly power...

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  #332983 21-May-2010 15:04
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k1wi: Why is it when Pacific Fibre announced their plans for a Trans-Pacific cable Telecom/SCC came out and said that the international haulage bottleneck/cost wasn't the determining factor on Broadband connections, yet now we hear that it is the main determinant on data caps?


I never said it was the MAIN determinant, but it's significant.. and when people download crazy amounts (interpret zrazy as you wish) it becomes a large contributor... ((After fudging costs between GB and Gbit//sec)

Cheers - N




--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


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  #332984 21-May-2010 15:06
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nzpossum: Why not give people unlimited off peak data


Why don't we make free self-service petrol from 1am through 6am?

No need to answer. It's a rethorical question.




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  #332986 21-May-2010 15:07
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k1wi: Why is it when Pacific Fibre announced their plans for a Trans-Pacific cable Telecom/SCC came out and said that the international haulage bottleneck/cost wasn't the determining factor on Broadband connections, yet now we hear that it is the main determinant on data caps?


From memory I think they said that capacity wasn't the issue as they had plenty of unlit fibre, and they set their prices to match the Australian market.

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Master Geek


  #332989 21-May-2010 15:09
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k1wi:
ronindanbo:
Flashcards: The current Telecom monopoly was gifted to them by the taxpayer and now this same taxpayer is being hurt by the very same company. I mean, with anything other than a total monopoly (I don't care what it's called by the government or media, it IS a monopoly)


I love how this word is used so much for Telecom as people clearly dont understand what a monopoly is, if a certain firm is the only one that can produce a certain good, it has a monopoly in the market for that good.

There is absolutly nothing stoping TCL, or any other player from building infrastructure to compete with Telecom but the truth is they wont because they dont have to so how does Telecom have a monopoly? Answer is they dont.
I don't know where you get your definition, but in economic terms, a monopoly exists when a single producer has sufficient market power to control the market. In the case of Telecom, this comes across because the barriers to entry - building another network - is high enough to make it uneconomical...

Hence it is a perfect example of a monopoly and why there is regulations in place to reduce the monopoly power...


My point exactly, as I said competitors have been given access to the network, and the market is heavily regulated how does that make Telecom a monopoly? It dosent, competitors have alot of advantage here the cost and effort to Telecom of maintaining the copper network even with kiwi share contributions is limiting enough to make Telecom the underdog.

uneconomical to build your own infrastructure? thats a debateable and totally generic statement that is arguable within context. A copper network does not have to be buit (and infact it is not viable to as this technology simply dosent cope with how the modern world needs to use it now) there are other more economical options but the simple fact is why would a foreign company wanting to do business in New Zealand even contribute to our infrastructure when they can use someone elses? the simple answer is they dont.

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  #332992 21-May-2010 15:14
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ronindanbo:
Flashcards: The current Telecom monopoly was gifted to them by the taxpayer and now this same taxpayer is being hurt by the very same company. I mean, with anything other than a total monopoly (I don't care what it's called by the government or media, it IS a monopoly)


I love how this word is used so much for Telecom as people clearly dont understand what a monopoly is, if a certain firm is the only one that can produce a certain good, it has a monopoly in the market for that good.

There is absolutly nothing stoping TCL, or any other player from building infrastructure to compete with Telecom but the truth is they wont because they dont have to so how does Telecom have a monopoly? Answer is they dont.


This is disingenuous IMHO. The reason no one else invests in redundant (to Telecom) infrastructure is because Telecom was gifted a head start in the first place! It is now no longer economical to do so! Plus, if they did, Telecom would drop their prices in those areas until they were forced out of business. We have already seen this happen before with Telecom and landline/long distance rates and their potential competitors. Telecom is a VORACIOUS and ruthless competitor and the original monopoly it was given by the taxpayer has helped it maintain that monopoly ever since...

Your comment is like someone saying, Microsoft is not a monopoly because anyone can produce a competing Operating System if they want to! We all know that is not the truth just like it is not the truth when someone says Telecom does not have a monopoly in NZ.

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  #332993 21-May-2010 15:14

freitasm:
nzpossum: Why not give people unlimited off peak data


Why don't we make free self-service petrol from 1am through 6am?

No need to answer. It's a rethorical question.


If Slingshot can do it then why can't Telecom Duh. Obviously Telecom knew peak times would be congested when they started this plan especially after Go Large failed. 

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  #332996 21-May-2010 15:27
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nzpossum:
freitasm:
nzpossum: Why not give people unlimited off peak data


Why don't we make free self-service petrol from 1am through 6am?

No need to answer. It's a rethorical question.


If Slingshot can do it then why can't Telecom Duh. Obviously Telecom knew peak times would be congested when they started this plan especially after Go Large failed. 


From what i've read on the forums SlingShot can't do it.  Internet is apparantly near on unusable on Slingshot in off-peak times.


I Am Jack's Cold Sweat

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