$0 Upfront?! Only partially.

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › $0 Upfront?! Only partially.

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#508541 18-Aug-2011 13:07

I agree that it's not documented very well; I remember posting something similar on GZ a couple of years ago. Telecom calls it a "postpaid" plan even though you pay it in advance, and the reasoning I got back is that you "pay by post (mail)" rather than "pay afterwards".

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Beccara

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#508543 18-Aug-2011 13:11

Lifejockey: I didn't know that postpaid in effect means prepaid in this case... and according to others above is usual for other providers..... Why don't they just explain these things clearly and boldly. I have always been on prepaid....easy, no confusion.

Zero dollars up front is probably technically correct .... but sneaky.

Should we also tell everyone going to a swimming pool that water is wet every single time?

Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated

lostangel

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#508544 18-Aug-2011 13:13

Hmm, they have even redefined post-paid in their tos:
"Telecom Postpaid Services" means Services provided by us where you pay the Charges on a monthly or other periodic basis

Rather than the actual meaning of post-paid.

I still believe it is confising and somewhat underhanded.

Postpaid is defined here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpaid

Telecoms'(and others) use of the word postpaid indicated that it is indeed postpaid regardless of how thwy've changed their definition of the word under their tos.

I think anywhere in advertising(except perhapf for satire) you use a word in a non-literal way is unacceptable as it is confising and consumers(such as myself in this case) have a different interpretation as to what's being purchased.

freitasm

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#508545 18-Aug-2011 13:15

I never called it "postpaid". It's "on account". As explained you pay in advance for the plan, and in arrears for anything used on top of it.

Probably people used to saying "prepaid" thought the other way would be "postpaid" which is not.

lostangel

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#508549 18-Aug-2011 13:24

freitasm: I never called it "postpaid". It's "on account". As explained you pay in advance for the plan, and in arrears for anything used on top of it.

Probably people used to saying "prepaid" thought the other way would be "postpaid" which is not.

It's not how Telecom have it advertised; http://store.telecom.co.nz/mobile/pay-monthly/phones#

Do you notice the words Postpaid Phones there?

Surely this is an unacceptable use of the term. A word that means paid after service is received as something else?

johnr

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#508552 18-Aug-2011 13:28

lostangel:
johnr: Do you pay for the petrol in your car before or after you use it?

Generally after it's placed in the car!

Vodafone never used to charge this way either, when did you guys change?

Bell South / Vodafone have always charged this way for Postpay

John

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#508553 18-Aug-2011 13:29

lostangel: Hmm, they have even redefined post-paid in their tos:
"Telecom Postpaid Services" means Services provided by us where you pay the Charges on a monthly or other periodic basis

Rather than the actual meaning of post-paid.

I still believe it is confising and somewhat underhanded.

Postpaid is defined here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpaid

Telecoms'(and others) use of the word postpaid indicated that it is indeed postpaid regardless of how thwy've changed their definition of the word under their tos.

I think anywhere in advertising(except perhapf for satire) you use a word in a non-literal way is unacceptable as it is confising and consumers(such as myself in this case) have a different interpretation as to what's being purchased.

In regards to that wikipedia article it says:

whereby the customer is charged for usage in the prior month

As a postpaid customer you're charged for the usage post your month. However rental charges are in advance.

MikeSkyrme

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#508557 18-Aug-2011 13:36

Beccara:
Lifejockey: I didn't know that postpaid in effect means prepaid in this case... and according to others above is usual for other providers..... Why don't they just explain these things clearly and boldly. I have always been on prepaid....easy, no confusion.

Zero dollars up front is probably technically correct .... but sneaky.

Should we also tell everyone going to a swimming pool that water is wet every single time?

Huh?

No, you would not tell them the water is wet everytime, but you would be expected to tell them that the water is actually in the pool, that the pool is not closed for a private function, that cleaning is not scheduled to commence 10 minutes after the payment has been made i.e. that they will receive what they have paid for without interruption...

I digress, so, my 2 cents worth...:

Most 'geeks' run a form of budget, a lot of the time, the billing format is not clearly explained in the retail outlet (yes, I have experience of this) and there is not specific mention of the fact that you are paying a month in advance.

When you are hit with an additional payment that you were not expecting, I expect there are some consumers out there who find the "additional" charge difficult to cope with.

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Beccara

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#508560 18-Aug-2011 13:41

MikeSkyrme:
Beccara:
Lifejockey: I didn't know that postpaid in effect means prepaid in this case... and according to others above is usual for other providers..... Why don't they just explain these things clearly and boldly. I have always been on prepaid....easy, no confusion.

Zero dollars up front is probably technically correct .... but sneaky.

Should we also tell everyone going to a swimming pool that water is wet every single time?

Huh?

No, you would not tell them the water is wet everytime, but you would be expected to tell them that the water is actually in the pool, that the pool is not closed for a private function, that cleaning is not scheduled to commence 10 minutes after the payment has been made i.e. that they will receive what they have paid for without interruption...

I digress, so, my 2 cents worth...:

Most 'geeks' run a form of budget, a lot of the time, the billing format is not clearly explained in the retail outlet (yes, I have experience of this) and there is not specific mention of the fact that you are paying a month in advance.

When you are hit with an additional payment that you were not expecting, I expect there are some consumers out there who find the "additional" charge difficult to cope with.

My point was almost everyone understands water is wet and almost everyone understands that with telco's the base plan charge is always in advance

lostangel

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#508570 18-Aug-2011 13:53

Beccara:

My point was almost everyone understands water is wet and almost everyone understands that with telco's the base plan charge is always in advance?

Your point is moot as I(the OP) did not understand this.

I do not expect this as I'm not charged this way by anyone else.

kingjj

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#508577 18-Aug-2011 14:01

lostangel:

I wasn't given a copy of the contract so I'll just have to believe you that it stated it.

Did you actually read the contract you signed or did you do what most people do and glance at it before signing your life away for two years? Go into the Telecom store you signed up at and request a copy of a contract, have a read of all the conditions and report back.

Were you ever told that your 'first months charges' would be free?

This issue seems to pop up here quite often simple because people don't read the contracts and ask for clarification at the time.

Lifejockey

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#508580 18-Aug-2011 14:07

kingjj:

This issue seems to pop up here quite often simple because people don't read the First Post and ask for clarification at the time.

Fixed that for you.

jjnz1

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#508582 18-Aug-2011 14:11

Every time I go to a store (VF) and sign up a contract, the salesman makes it very clear what my first bill will be like, ie, charged for 2 months.

Surely Telecom/2D are the same. If the OP doesn't or didn't understand, maybe it's the salesrep's mistake for not being clear enough.

Maybe it's not the customer, maybe it's the processes?

(to the OP, this one is pretty clear and standard so you won't get out of paying)

kingjj

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#508583 18-Aug-2011 14:17

Lifejockey:
kingjj:

This issue seems to pop up here quite often simple because people don't read the First Post and ask for clarification at the time.

Fixed that for you.

First post and rest of topic was read. Wanted actual clarification from the poster that they had read and understood the terms they were signing. Thanks for your witty response though. I stand by my statement, this topic crops up regularly and normally the person has not read the contract and/or specials conditions in its entirety.

lostangel

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#508584 18-Aug-2011 14:17

kingjj:

Did you actually read the contract you signed or did you do what most people do and glance at it before signing your life away for two years? Go into the Telecom store you signed up at and request a copy of a contract, have a read of all the conditions and report back.

Were you ever told that your 'first months charges' would be free?

This issue seems to pop up here quite often simple because people don't read the contracts and ask for clarification at the time.

The point it was a postpaid subscription(like I"ve previously had with telecom some time ago) had me thinking they'd still have a similar charging system and the metion of postpaid on their website when I was researching the phone and deal has only given me the false sense that they actually are providing a postpaid service in the deal.

For all those who want to pipe up and say it is post paid right now .... shhh! It is not paid after the service has been provided. It seems it is a contracted service that is prepaid in nature. Paying before you receive anything is prepaid!

I indeed should go and take a look at the contract.
The whole nothing up front(while they mean the phone only) could easily be confusing as it was in my case. Postpaid also is a confusing term if it is not literal.

These things added together have made my experiance less than acceptable and whether or not Teleom have done anything wrong with their advertising I feel mislead by the use of the postpaid term and the $0 upfront campaign. The advertising on their website stating postpaid needs changing because postpaid has a meaning to people jujst like prepaid has a meaning.

$0 upfront, while they meant the phone only, it's not stated you will have a bill that day for the cost of your plan.

So the day you sign up, you now owe. Thats an 'Upfront' debt that you can pay later.

The Prorated charge fro when I've had less than a months usage is also cryptic and I'll be pointing this out repeatedly to Telecom till I get some answers.

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