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ckc

321 posts

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  # 1185375 29-Nov-2014 13:18
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itxtme:
johnr: 

Customers call up for all types of issues, Can't setup a printer or they can't log into Trademe or there PC won't power up,

I can't do anything about long hold times (not my area sorry) but I can ask questions and get the customer generally in the right direction

@TimA could mention some classics I bet


Interesting point.  I guess the obvious question is that is it only Vodafone customers that call their ISP's with these types of support requests?  Lets assume other ISP's suffer from the same nuisance calls, because thats more logical than assuming they don't.  The question is why can Vodafone not adequately deal with their call volume.  I suspect the staff:calls ratio is skewed.


It'll get worse in summer, especially on the cable side, where all equipment is traditionally prone to overheating like a madman.

The other answer, though, is poor synergy.

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  # 1185377 29-Nov-2014 13:24
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johnr:
Sorry but the OP did mention in the first post about ping time outs to 8.8.8.8

" Started getting ping timeouts to 8.8.8.8. "

All I had was a picture in my head of someone pinging 8.8.8.8 all day long and then seeing some time outs and wanting to log a fault for this issue and that is why I wanted to check what the actual issue is,

Customers call up for all types of issues, Can't setup a printer or they can't log into Trademe or there PC won't power up,

I can't do anything about long hold times (not my area sorry) but I can ask questions and get the customer generally in the right direction

@TimA could mention some classics I bet


Instead of being pointlessly argumentative, if you're going to post as a known staffer of an ISP -- and we all know the you only volunteer your time here stuff -- at least try and do it in a way that enhances people's perception of your employer. Your posts in this thread have largely been rude, not addressing simple realities like the poor call waiting times beyond lines like "not my area" (try "sorry about the hassles you're experiencing" instead next time if you're going to post about this), and frankly not at all helpful compared to, for example, Talkiet's.



 
 
 
 


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  # 1185385 29-Nov-2014 13:49
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gregmcc:
freitasm:
mattwnz: WHy don't you email them instead? It maybe faster. Some companies are really quick at replying to emails, and it can be less hassle than trying to explain it all over the phone multiple times to multiple telephone operators, who are likely just following screen prompts anyway.


Emails have even lower priority than calls.



You are right, sometimes the piroity is so low are reply never happens,

Vf need a real serious look at the support they provide as it slow at best of times,
But mostly it's just a joke when the wait times are so long


It depends on the company, although I don't think any of them specify their policies on this type of thing. Emails should have the same priority, espically if they use a proper ticketing system, and email is cheaper support to provide. Look at BigPipe for example who use email as their primary form of support, and it seems to work well for them. Many online companies also only have online support. In the US they seem to do online support far better than they do it here in NZ. NZ Companies could learn a lot from places like mailchimp, amazon etc, and their online support.

But if a company provides phone support as their primary form of support, then their is no excuse not to have it staffed to acceptable levels, to allow calls to be answered within a reasonable period of time. I think most people are prepared to wait a max of 15 minutes these days.

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  # 1185441 29-Nov-2014 14:46
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dejadeadnz:
johnr:
Sorry but the OP did mention in the first post about ping time outs to 8.8.8.8

" Started getting ping timeouts to 8.8.8.8. "

All I had was a picture in my head of someone pinging 8.8.8.8 all day long and then seeing some time outs and wanting to log a fault for this issue and that is why I wanted to check what the actual issue is,

Customers call up for all types of issues, Can't setup a printer or they can't log into Trademe or there PC won't power up,

I can't do anything about long hold times (not my area sorry) but I can ask questions and get the customer generally in the right direction

@TimA could mention some classics I bet


Instead of being pointlessly argumentative, if you're going to post as a known staffer of an ISP -- and we all know the you only volunteer your time here stuff -- at least try and do it in a way that enhances people's perception of your employer. Your posts in this thread have largely been rude, not addressing simple realities like the poor call waiting times beyond lines like "not my area" (try "sorry about the hassles you're experiencing" instead next time if you're going to post about this), and frankly not at all helpful compared to, for example, Talkiet's.




I am not been pointlessly argumentative thanks! Stop twisting it trying to make me look bad or I don't give a hoot or what ever you are trying to do,

I can't address the call wait times they are 110% out of my control and I would rather have an understanding of the actual issue than saying ' Sorry about the hassle '

All I wanted to know what was the actual impact / issue the end user was having and how the ping time outs related to an issue the end user is having, This is how I work someone explains an issue and I can generally come up with an answer quite quickly or know where to direct it for an answer

15028 posts

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  # 1185445 29-Nov-2014 14:57
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ckc:
itxtme:
johnr: 

Customers call up for all types of issues, Can't setup a printer or they can't log into Trademe or there PC won't power up,

I can't do anything about long hold times (not my area sorry) but I can ask questions and get the customer generally in the right direction

@TimA could mention some classics I bet


Interesting point.  I guess the obvious question is that is it only Vodafone customers that call their ISP's with these types of support requests?  Lets assume other ISP's suffer from the same nuisance calls, because thats more logical than assuming they don't.  The question is why can Vodafone not adequately deal with their call volume.  I suspect the staff:calls ratio is skewed.


It'll get worse in summer, especially on the cable side, where all equipment is traditionally prone to overheating like a madman.

The other answer, though, is poor synergy.


You do often hear of support problems with ISPs when they go through a growth phase or change ownership/management, and their current systems can't cope with the increased customer base. But not sure if that applies in this case, as they have been one of the 2 largest ISPs for some time, and they are a huge global company too.

ckc

321 posts

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  # 1185500 29-Nov-2014 16:28
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I think it's a lot more complicated than just being two of the largest ISPs when it comes to synergising their businesses. I was working for Telewest in the UK at the time they did the NTL merger, and despite these companies both having gone through the process of swallowing up all the smaller regional cable companies, and running several different systems dependent on regions, that merger was still a total mess. And they were dealing with two operators who both worked on the same kind of cable systems.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1185501 29-Nov-2014 16:39
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johnr: 

I am not been pointlessly argumentative thanks! Stop twisting it trying to make me look bad or I don't give a hoot or what ever you are trying to do,

I can't address the call wait times they are 110% out of my control and I would rather have an understanding of the actual issue than saying ' Sorry about the hassle '

All I wanted to know what was the actual impact / issue the end user was having and how the ping time outs related to an issue the end user is having, This is how I work someone explains an issue and I can generally come up with an answer quite quickly or know where to direct it for an answer


Oh please spare those of us who can read. Here's a rationality test: how come Talkiet (again, purely highlighting by way of an example) clearly picked up that the OP wasn't doing the "All I had was a picture in my head of someone pinging 8.8.8.8 all day long and then seeing some time outs and wanting to log a fault for this issue" act? And what's more, the OP himself already helped us understand his issue by saying " Was trying to RDP to a server in Aussie to finish some work, and the connection was so bad that it just kept timing out. Checking wellington speedtest i was getting results like these...."

I am not going to take sides on whether the way the information was originally presented was helpful (or not) but what is abundantly clear was that by the time you contributed with your unhelpful and rude reply, it was already well past the point where someone could legitimately frame the issue as being the OP being merely crazy and so on. So any polite and genuinely helpful person would have dropped the nonsense and either tried to help or depart the thread. Instead you insisted on restarting a fight, critiquing the way the OP framed the issue, and oh so unsubtly implied that you were right in replying as you were by framing the OP's issues alongside stuff like "Customers call up for all types of issues, Can't setup a printer or they can't log into Trademe or there PC won't power up".

Here's a hint: reading comprehension is important, as is the ability to communicate with people in a way that's courteous and considerate.  More importantly, trying to get in the last word when you're clearly in the wrong is unseemly.



15028 posts

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  # 1185526 29-Nov-2014 18:29
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ckc: I think it's a lot more complicated than just being two of the largest ISPs when it comes to synergising their businesses. I was working for Telewest in the UK at the time they did the NTL merger, and despite these companies both having gone through the process of swallowing up all the smaller regional cable companies, and running several different systems dependent on regions, that merger was still a total mess. And they were dealing with two operators who both worked on the same kind of cable systems.


This merger was years go though, and I think these current support problems are relatively new based on the low number of complaints up until the last few months I have seen. As it is one of the larger ISPs, you would expect there to be more complaints than a smaller ISP, simply due to their being more customers to complain.

4569 posts

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  # 1185548 29-Nov-2014 18:53
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mattwnz:
ckc:
itxtme:
johnr: 

Customers call up for all types of issues, Can't setup a printer or they can't log into Trademe or there PC won't power up,

I can't do anything about long hold times (not my area sorry) but I can ask questions and get the customer generally in the right direction

@TimA could mention some classics I bet


Interesting point.  I guess the obvious question is that is it only Vodafone customers that call their ISP's with these types of support requests?  Lets assume other ISP's suffer from the same nuisance calls, because thats more logical than assuming they don't.  The question is why can Vodafone not adequately deal with their call volume.  I suspect the staff:calls ratio is skewed.


It'll get worse in summer, especially on the cable side, where all equipment is traditionally prone to overheating like a madman.

The other answer, though, is poor synergy.


You do often hear of support problems with ISPs when they go through a growth phase or change ownership/management, and their current systems can't cope with the increased customer base. But not sure if that applies in this case, as they have been one of the 2 largest ISPs for some time, and they are a huge global company too.

When Telstra Saturn and Clear merged in 2001 (remember, I was there at the time) wait times at Faults were shocking - and that was with staff in both Auckland and Wellington supporting the combined entities. When I finally left the company in 2005 (by then in Auckland only) they weren't much better.
My personal perspective is Vodafone have bitten off more than they could chew in buying Telstra Clear.

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  # 1185593 29-Nov-2014 22:05
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ckc:
freitasm: Vodafone to Australia can be pretty bad - has been for the last few months. Try accessing www.smh.com.au on Vodafone cable and you will see it taking a few more seconds than expected for a site just on the other side of the pond.


Just tried it. Instantly, and I mean instantly, loaded. Faster than Stuff or the Herald ever did.

I cannot fault VF for quality of connection. I'm just hoping they don't cut me off for using 3TB of data in the first month.


Just tried the site www.smh.com.au first time was about a minute, second time was instant. Caching? Try going to amiga.org, the page doesn't load completely for me and I get 403 errors this is only on Vodafone. If I use a proxy I can get to the site fine :-)

Haven't bothered logging a fault after my previous experience of sitting on hold for hours with no answer I'll just stick to the proxy.



ckc

321 posts

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  # 1185640 30-Nov-2014 01:12
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Lurch:
ckc:
freitasm: Vodafone to Australia can be pretty bad - has been for the last few months. Try accessing www.smh.com.au on Vodafone cable and you will see it taking a few more seconds than expected for a site just on the other side of the pond.


Just tried it. Instantly, and I mean instantly, loaded. Faster than Stuff or the Herald ever did.

I cannot fault VF for quality of connection. I'm just hoping they don't cut me off for using 3TB of data in the first month.


Just tried the site www.smh.com.au first time was about a minute, second time was instant. Caching? Try going to amiga.org, the page doesn't load completely for me and I get 403 errors this is only on Vodafone. If I use a proxy I can get to the site fine :-)

Haven't bothered logging a fault after my previous experience of sitting on hold for hours with no answer I'll just stick to the proxy.




I have had no issues with any of those sites. Or torrents. Or ssh to Europe (except for a week ago, but tracert showed the issue was in Europe). I get faster than I paid for, I've really torn through the data getting all my stuff from my VPS before I close it down, AND they've also just knocked money off my internet every month for the next year.

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  # 1185646 30-Nov-2014 02:28
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freitasm:
mattwnz: WHy don't you email them instead? It maybe faster. Some companies are really quick at replying to emails, and it can be less hassle than trying to explain it all over the phone multiple times to multiple telephone operators, who are likely just following screen prompts anyway.


Emails have even lower priority than calls.



http://www.geekzone.co.nz/nakedmolerat/8748

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  # 1185665 30-Nov-2014 07:32
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dejadeadnz:
johnr: 

I am not been pointlessly argumentative thanks! Stop twisting it trying to make me look bad or I don't give a hoot or what ever you are trying to do,

I can't address the call wait times they are 110% out of my control and I would rather have an understanding of the actual issue than saying ' Sorry about the hassle '

All I wanted to know what was the actual impact / issue the end user was having and how the ping time outs related to an issue the end user is having, This is how I work someone explains an issue and I can generally come up with an answer quite quickly or know where to direct it for an answer


Oh please spare those of us who can read. Here's a rationality test: how come Talkiet (again, purely highlighting by way of an example) clearly picked up that the OP wasn't doing the "All I had was a picture in my head of someone pinging 8.8.8.8 all day long and then seeing some time outs and wanting to log a fault for this issue" act? And what's more, the OP himself already helped us understand his issue by saying " Was trying to RDP to a server in Aussie to finish some work, and the connection was so bad that it just kept timing out. Checking wellington speedtest i was getting results like these...."

I am not going to take sides on whether the way the information was originally presented was helpful (or not) but what is abundantly clear was that by the time you contributed with your unhelpful and rude reply, it was already well past the point where someone could legitimately frame the issue as being the OP being merely crazy and so on. So any polite and genuinely helpful person would have dropped the nonsense and either tried to help or depart the thread. Instead you insisted on restarting a fight, critiquing the way the OP framed the issue, and oh so unsubtly implied that you were right in replying as you were by framing the OP's issues alongside stuff like "Customers call up for all types of issues, Can't setup a printer or they can't log into Trademe or there PC won't power up".

Here's a hint: reading comprehension is important, as is the ability to communicate with people in a way that's courteous and considerate.  More importantly, trying to get in the last word when you're clearly in the wrong is unseemly.




This post amuses and annoys, *hint* "courteous and considerate" is a two way thing.

This place would lose considerable skills if folks like the Telco staffers decided enough with the personal attacks and ceased their efforts here.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1185696 30-Nov-2014 09:28
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dejadeadnz:
johnr: 

I am not been pointlessly argumentative thanks! Stop twisting it trying to make me look bad or I don't give a hoot or what ever you are trying to do,

I can't address the call wait times they are 110% out of my control and I would rather have an understanding of the actual issue than saying ' Sorry about the hassle '

All I wanted to know what was the actual impact / issue the end user was having and how the ping time outs related to an issue the end user is having, This is how I work someone explains an issue and I can generally come up with an answer quite quickly or know where to direct it for an answer


Oh please spare those of us who can read. Here's a rationality test: how come Talkiet (again, purely highlighting by way of an example) clearly picked up that the OP wasn't doing the "All I had was a picture in my head of someone pinging 8.8.8.8 all day long and then seeing some time outs and wanting to log a fault for this issue" act? And what's more, the OP himself already helped us understand his issue by saying " Was trying to RDP to a server in Aussie to finish some work, and the connection was so bad that it just kept timing out. Checking wellington speedtest i was getting results like these...."

I am not going to take sides on whether the way the information was originally presented was helpful (or not) but what is abundantly clear was that by the time you contributed with your unhelpful and rude reply, it was already well past the point where someone could legitimately frame the issue as being the OP being merely crazy and so on. So any polite and genuinely helpful person would have dropped the nonsense and either tried to help or depart the thread. Instead you insisted on restarting a fight, critiquing the way the OP framed the issue, and oh so unsubtly implied that you were right in replying as you were by framing the OP's issues alongside stuff like "Customers call up for all types of issues, Can't setup a printer or they can't log into Trademe or there PC won't power up".

Here's a hint: reading comprehension is important, as is the ability to communicate with people in a way that's courteous and considerate.  More importantly, trying to get in the last word when you're clearly in the wrong is unseemly.




The tone and content of your comments are not even-handed. Your comments go well beyond the "facts". Whatever the faults of johnr's responses, your comments appear arrogant and you clearly attempt to belittle him.

You don't believe what johnr says so you don't take his comments at face value. So your conclusion that he is in the wrong is only your opinion. I certainly don't share your views even though I have a vested interest in getting better phone support from Vodafone. But even if you are right, that still doesn't give you any right to insult him.

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