Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
Departed
9871 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4141

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 664714 31-Jul-2012 16:12 Send private message

It gets my support, way over due




Mike
IT Management Consultant, Freelance money spender
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.

 

 


2399 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 451

Trusted

  Reply # 664725 31-Jul-2012 16:21 Send private message

Firstly, I am 100% in support of this Marriage Equality initiative. I'm also confident that New Zealand is tolerant and informed enough to not derail this, vocal minorities notwithstanding.

But my first thought was, what happens to couples who have already committed via a Civil Union? Will they have a way to have this converted to a marriage, or have some process to ensure they can have all the rights they should now be entitled to, had marriage been an option when they joined via Civil Union? 

Perhaps the Government should provide financial assistance to allow them to have lavish marriage ceremonies, allowing couples to renew their vows under this new legal construct made available to them. :-)


 

 



2956 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 763


  Reply # 664726 31-Jul-2012 16:22 Send private message

While I have nothing against gay people, I don't think they should be allowed to change the nature of marriage. 

Marriage should remain the optimal arrangement for child bearing and raising a family as it always has been. 

Gay people cannot bear children naturally, so , they cannot marry. 

Once you start changing the nature of marriage to allow anyone in love to marry, then , what's stopping a brother and sister from marrying, or other bizarre combinations.

Gay people in a civil union can call themselves married, but it is a marriage via civil union . 

Incidentally, the religious aspect of marriage means nothing to me. 

2399 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 451

Trusted

  Reply # 664732 31-Jul-2012 16:29 Send private message

surfisup1000:
Gay people cannot bear children naturally, so , they cannot marry.   


That's not entirely accurate. Two of my closest friends have two young boys, both who were naturally carried to term by one of them. Of course, there did have to be external assistance in terms of a sperm donor, who also has a strong and loving relationship with his sons.

I also am having a hard time reconciling your correlation between the ability to bear children naturally and the right to marry. Does that mean we need to screen couples for potential fertility issues before granting marriage licenses?


gzt

8536 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1059


  Reply # 664737 31-Jul-2012 16:36 Send private message

surfisup1000: Marriage should remain the optimal arrangement for child bearing and raising a family as it always has been. Gay people cannot bear children naturally, so , they cannot marry.

A lot of people cannot bear children for various reasons, but it is not and never has been a qualification for marriage.

surfisup1000: Once you start changing the nature of marriage to allow anyone in love to marry, then , what's stopping a brother and sister from marrying, or other bizarre combinations.

None of those things you name are being considered here.

2956 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 763


  Reply # 664752 31-Jul-2012 16:50 Send private message

ajobbins: 
Firstly a truck and a car do not have the same rules on the road - and I am quite happy to point out the reasons why they don't, and shouldn't. And this IS broken - we are denying people the right to equal legal recognition of their commitment relationship based on a bias against their sexuality - this, by definition, is discrimination.


We discriminate all the time.  We euthanise pets but not humans Why? Because we discriminate that cats are inferior to us (except for some crazy cat people). This is a good thing, and saves us money so we can treat more people. 

We practice affirmative action in NZ, which is positive discrimination. 

Manufacturers discriminate against left handed people all the time. 

Airlines discriminate against very fat people by making them purchase 2 seats. 

Gay people also discriminate when choosing their partner -- a gay man will avoid sex with a female -- he is discriminating against women. 

Gay people are different -- this is not just a minor difference such as skin colour or height   -- to the point, if everyone were gay, there would be no people at all.

Marriage in the tradition sense is between a man/woman, but this excludes gay people by definition. So civil unions were created to allow gay people to enjoy the same rights under law as a married couple. Yet, the gay people still don't have the exactly the same rights, as the laws of nature prohibit them from naturally bearing children. The gay people can argue that one with god :)

In 1000 years, gay people may treasure the thousand year old tradition of 'civil unions' and want to block straight people from 'civil unions'. 

2956 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 763


  Reply # 664754 31-Jul-2012 16:53 Send private message

gzt:

surfisup1000: Once you start changing the nature of marriage to allow anyone in love to marry, then , what's stopping a brother and sister from marrying, or other bizarre combinations.

None of those things you name are being considered here.


But, this is where such changes can lead. 

2956 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 763


  Reply # 664755 31-Jul-2012 16:54 Send private message

gzt: 
A lot of people cannot bear children for various reasons, but it is not and never has been a qualification for marriage.


But, it is the optimal arrangement for continuing the human race. 


1258 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 473


  Reply # 664756 31-Jul-2012 16:55 Send private message

surfisup1000:
gzt:

surfisup1000: Once you start changing the nature of marriage to allow anyone in love to marry, then , what's stopping a brother and sister from marrying, or other bizarre combinations.

None of those things you name are being considered here.


But, this is where such changes can lead. 


O noes, not the slippery slope!!! Before you know it we will all be forced to marry horses at gunpoint! That logically follows from gay marriage!

19482 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3406

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 664759 31-Jul-2012 16:59 Send private message

The issue I have with the surveys etc on this is that they basically only give the options of support, oppose, or undecided.

Im not supporting it, I am not opposed to it and I am pretty much decided that I dont care either way on it happening, yet there is no option for that.

I suspect that if they did have that option then a lot fewer people would be putting themselves in the undecided or opposed options.




Richard rich.ms

1258 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 473


  Reply # 664760 31-Jul-2012 17:00 Send private message

surfisup1000: Gay people also discriminate when choosing their partner -- a gay man will avoid sex with a female -- he is discriminating against women. 


And I choose not to have sex with anyone who isn't my wife, aren't I such a bigot - discriminating against 99.999999% of the world!
 
Marriage in the tradition sense is between a man/woman, but this excludes gay people by definition. So civil unions were created to allow gay people to enjoy the same rights under law as a married couple. Yet, the gay people still don't have the exactly the same rights, as the laws of nature prohibit them from naturally bearing children. The gay people can argue that one with god :)


Traditionally, racially mixed marriages were illegal. For many millennia the laws of nature prohibited marrying people from other continents. Times change.

In 1000 years, gay people may treasure the thousand year old tradition of 'civil unions' and want to block straight people from 'civil unions'. 

I'll leave the science fiction to the sci fi authors, I think you should too.

gjm

732 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 90


  Reply # 664761 31-Jul-2012 17:00 Send private message

scuwp: OK, I will have a crack at a sort of opposing view...

Marriage is a defined term, why are we trying to redefine it? Marriage is between a man and woman, end of story. Gay and lesbian couples claim to only want the same rights as married couples, and guess what...they do under current laws in a variety of ways including civil unions.

"Man" and "Woman" are also defined terms. When woman wanted the same "rights" as men, we didn't go out and change the definition of "women" so they could enjoy an equal status in modern society.

I am all for non-discrimination and equal rights no matter what your gender or sexual orientation, but a car is a car, and a truck is a truck. Both have the same rules and rights on the road, lets not try to fix something that isn't broken.   Isn't this just more PC nonsense?




This is pretty much what I think as well but probably written better than I could. I'm not sure how similar the rights of married and "unioned" couples are at the moment but they should be the same. However I get annoyed when I think they are trying to change the meaning of words. Call my old fashioned but if everyone decided to call a horse a dolphin it would still be a horse.




[Amstrad CPC 6128: 128k Memory: 3 inch floppy drive: Colour Screen]

1258 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 473


  Reply # 664769 31-Jul-2012 17:03 Send private message

surfisup1000:
gzt: 
A lot of people cannot bear children for various reasons, but it is not and never has been a qualification for marriage.


But, it is the optimal arrangement for continuing the human race. 



Until gay marriage actually becomes compulsory for all, this argument is invalid. All evidence shows that the human race has absolutely no problems in propagating itself, there are over 7 billion exhibits for the defense there.

1258 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 473


  Reply # 664775 31-Jul-2012 17:10 Send private message

For the record I am in favor of anyone in a loving, consensual relationship being able to have that relationship recognised as a marriage by law. Religions can look after themselves, this is solely a legal/civil matter.

I'm not gay, I have gay friends and relatives, but none that are planning on getting hitched to my knowledge.
What really gets my snark going is the shonky, post-hoc 'reasoning' some people come up with to try and justify their own prejudices. I will attempt to keep my snark civil (if not unionised) and restrain my rebuttals to mattters of fact and logic (mostly).

2281 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 455


  Reply # 664778 31-Jul-2012 17:14 Send private message



Gay people are different -- this is not just a minor difference such as skin colour or height   -- to the point, if everyone were gay, there would be no people at all.


what a load of rubbish, of course there would be people , you dont need sex to carry on the human race and im with the majority who thinks this whole issue is a storm in a teacup and in the long run , the law will pass and the world wont end and i still wont care

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Telecommunications monitoring report: Are you being served?
Posted 24-May-2017 11:54


NetValue partners with CRM Provider SugarCRM
Posted 23-May-2017 20:04


Terabyte looms as Vocus users download 430GB a month
Posted 19-May-2017 14:51


2degrees tips into profit after seven lean years
Posted 19-May-2017 09:47


2degrees growth story continues
Posted 17-May-2017 15:25


Symantec Blocks 22 Million Attempted WannaCry Ransomware Attacks Globally
Posted 17-May-2017 12:41


HPE Unveils Computer Built for the Era of Big Data
Posted 17-May-2017 12:39


Samsung Galaxy S8 Plus review: Beautiful, feature-packed
Posted 16-May-2017 20:14


After ten years of mail pain Spark is done with Yahoo
Posted 15-May-2017 13:12


Warnings from security firms: do not click that link or risk your computer being infected
Posted 15-May-2017 10:11


Pushpay named NZ Hi-Tech Company of the Year 2017
Posted 15-May-2017 09:59


Passive Optical Lan means fibre to the desktop
Posted 12-May-2017 17:09


Finalists Named for 2017 CIO Awards
Posted 11-May-2017 20:00


Exhibition to showcase digital artwork from across the globe
Posted 10-May-2017 18:54


Accelerate 2017 to focus on navigating disruption with a design thinking mindset
Posted 10-May-2017 18:49



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.