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Topic # 116123 18-Apr-2013 23:35
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So I moved out on my own ~6 months ago with 2 friends to a townhouse in Ponsonby. Found the place on TradeMe and have been dealing with an agent when things have come up that require attending to.

This morning I get a text from the neighbours while at work asking what the deal was with our security cameras. We share a driveway with 3 other houses so they're pretty close. I replied "we don't have security cameras?" to which she said that someone had come by this morning to install two, one pointing at the driveway and one out back of the house. This was the first I'd heard of this so I texted my flatmate who was at home to ask what was up, he said yes, two people claiming the landlord sent them are here installing cameras.

What!

So I raced home and by the time I got back they were gone, so we went to look at the cameras. Sure enough they were there staring at us. While we were there a guy showed up in a beat up Holden and I asked him if he installed these and who gave him permission to do so. He said the property owner and named our agent as to verify they were who they say they were. He said the cameras were for security and as a burglary deterrent. He dodged questions of who was paying for the power, where they were being recorded to, etc. "If you have nothing to hide, why do you care?"

At this point the owner of the property, whom we hadn't met, came out and got angry and immediately jumped to "if you don't like them, you can f*ck right off." We calmed down a bit when he said they were simply fake cameras and he mentioned the neighbour (one in direct view of one of the faux-cameras) had a go at him for it before he threatened to report him in the council for "operating 4 flats out of his house when he's only allowed to have one."

From what I understand speaking to multiple property managers in my family, he is not legally allowed to do this, despite it being his property. The agent has been dodging my calls all day. On one hand it seems easy just to forget about it but it still feels like he's taking advantage of us because of our age (18, 19 and 20). What do I do? Let it go? File a breach notice, pissing him off? What's to stop him barging in here again on other false pretences?

Signed, a confused renter.









 


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  Reply # 801981 18-Apr-2013 23:35
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Hmmmm. Here we go.




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  Reply # 801991 19-Apr-2013 01:15
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Have there been any  security issues recently in the neighborhood?

If the property owner wants to install dummy security camera's on the outside of the house they can but they are supposed to give you notice of stuff like that happening before it happens.

Did the landlord talk to one of the other tenants before they were installed?

Refer to:
http://www.dbh.govt.nz/your-rights-and-responsibilities



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  Reply # 802006 19-Apr-2013 02:40
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No security issues, no notice to any of us.




 


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  Reply # 802008 19-Apr-2013 02:43
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Wth?

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  Reply # 802010 19-Apr-2013 03:38
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Ragnor: Have there been any  security issues recently in the neighborhood?

If the property owner wants to install dummy security camera's on the outside of the house they can but they are supposed to give you notice of stuff like that happening before it happens.

Did the landlord talk to one of the other tenants before they were installed?

Refer to:
http://www.dbh.govt.nz/your-rights-and-responsibilities


"the landlord must:
* give 48 hours’ notice to inspect the property – but not more than once every four weeks and only between the hours of 8am and 7pm (the landlord can come onto the section without giving notice, but must respect the tenant’s privacy) give 24 hours’ notice to do repairs and do them between the hours of 8am and 7pm"

so how do you read that bold/italic bit?  not entirely clear.  sounds like the landlord can come and go wrt the section as long as they 'respect the tenants privacy'.




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  Reply # 802022 19-Apr-2013 06:13
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Regs:
Ragnor: Have there been any  security issues recently in the neighborhood?

If the property owner wants to install dummy security camera's on the outside of the house they can but they are supposed to give you notice of stuff like that happening before it happens.

Did the landlord talk to one of the other tenants before they were installed?

Refer to:
http://www.dbh.govt.nz/your-rights-and-responsibilities


"the landlord must:
* give 48 hours’ notice to inspect the property – but not more than once every four weeks and only between the hours of 8am and 7pm (the landlord can come onto the section without giving notice, but must respect the tenant’s privacy) give 24 hours’ notice to do repairs and do them between the hours of 8am and 7pm"

so how do you read that bold/italic bit?  not entirely clear.  sounds like the landlord can come and go wrt the section as long as they 'respect the tenants privacy'.


No they can't come and go with out giving 24 hours notice, and even then it must be for a valid reason.

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  Reply # 802072 19-Apr-2013 09:05
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Installing fake security cameras at a property you do not live at is a really really strange thing to do.

It would be good to know the real reasons behind it. It could be something simple like a neighbor stole his wheelie bin or the previous tenants took something large with them and he could not prove it and did not find out until too late.

Also he sounds like an ass.

Having people on the property without your knowledge is a lot less than ideal and at minimum I'd be looking for reassurances from the property agent that the landlord recognises the error and will use a better process next time. No response to calls, so send a letter asking for a written response on that topic.

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  Reply # 802074 19-Apr-2013 09:12
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blackjack17:
No they can't come and go with out giving 24 hours notice, and even then it must be for a valid reason.


Of course he can.  He uses his car to drive there, and his legs to enter the property :)

I wonder, what would happen if you called the police to remove him? 

He'd probably leave and then terminate the tenancy. 

gzt

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  Reply # 802085 19-Apr-2013 09:27
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surfisup1000:
blackjack17:
No they can't come and go with out giving 24 hours notice, and even then it must be for a valid reason.


Of course he can.  He uses his car to drive there, and his legs to enter the property :)

I wonder, what would happen if you called the police to remove him? 

He'd probably leave and then terminate the tenancy. 

Nobody here has advocated this course of action. This is pointless speculation and probably not helpful.

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  Reply # 802088 19-Apr-2013 09:30
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In fact, the landlord can come on to the property without notice - they just can't come into the HOUSE without your permission, peer in the windows, spy on you, that sort of thing.  Keep in mind they do actually own the property, you are living in their house.

If those has been real security cams, you'd have a case wrt privacy, but putting up fake cams, as long as he didnt' go inside the house, I would say he is quite within the law - he should have let you know, yes, but I think you'd have a hard time proving he "had" to.

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  Reply # 802094 19-Apr-2013 09:51
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The Law: The landlord can... enter the property at other times if the tenant freely allows.
The landlord must not...breach the tenant's privacy...


It's kinda a grey area.
I do think the property owner has been an ass, either they or the agent/landlord should have notified you first under expectations of 'good faith'.

You may have a case for privacy breach, as 1) you weren't notified, 2) security/surveillance cameras were installed without you being notified, 3) It's unclear if the owner/agent/LL intended to inform you at all and 4) It's unclear if the owner/agent/LL intended to inform you that the equipment were dummy cameras.

In my opinion, I'd still try to speak to the agent and express to them your concern and disappointment.
If anything like this continues, then take action.

As far as good faith goes, the owner and agent SHOULD ideally leave you the bloody hell alone, and contact you a good amount of time ahead if they need to enter the property or building.

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  Reply # 802404 19-Apr-2013 17:20
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What a weird situation. Have you checked how these dummy cameras are being powered? If they're tapped into the electricity that you're all paying for, I'd disconnect 'em myself.




Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?


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  Reply # 802406 19-Apr-2013 17:29
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  Reply # 802411 19-Apr-2013 17:38
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gzt: http://www.dicksmith.co.nz/product/L7250/


I wonder if the landlord is going to come back every 10 days to change the batteries?

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  Reply # 802466 19-Apr-2013 19:07
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Peppery: 

From what I understand speaking to multiple property managers in my family, he is not legally allowed to do this,


Landlord is permitted on the grounds, within reason (quiet enjoyment restrictions), but not in the premises (buildings you rent) without appropriate notice. 

It sounds like these are just dummy cameras, I'd probably thank the landlord for taking initiative to deter crime, and remind him, and the property manager, that you'd like him to let you know when he is going to be performing maintenance on the property in future, leave it at that.







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