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BDFL - Memuneh
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  # 813121 7-May-2013 18:34
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Bee: Why did I post this? I came here thinking someone here would know a thing or two and give me good legal advice/experiences and just got abuse based on the morals of it all...


Sorry, but I will disagree. If there is a bunch of people with opposite views then it's a time to stop and reflect on it.







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  # 813136 7-May-2013 19:03
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Bee: I saw a hole in the system/law and I'm thinking about taking it - I was wanting someone to confirm or deny that this hole exists... I don't have a definitive answer but 90% sure this hole does exist...

KiwiNZ, I don't think I'm a bad person - If I had $5M I would gladly be generous and give you some if you asked but as I don't always have enough money to put food on the table for my family at the moment, I'm not going to pay for something unless I HAVE to... I think that's pretty reasonable???







There is no hole in the system. You (or rather, your wife) is liable.

See here, and here, for example. I have also personally taken two people to the disputes tribunal (well, me once, my wife the other time as that car was registered in her name) for reversing into our vehicles and denying liability. They also were found liable and had to pay full damages.

If the other driver presses it, you will lose.




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  # 813140 7-May-2013 19:07
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freitasm:
Bee: Why did I post this? I came here thinking someone here would know a thing or two and give me good legal advice/experiences and just got abuse based on the morals of it all...


Sorry, but I will disagree. If there is a bunch of people with opposite views then it's a time to stop and reflect on it.





Well, personally I thought we were giving him pretty good legal advice, i.e. he (his wife) will be found liable so he may as well just man up and get it over with. Smile




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  # 813144 7-May-2013 19:11
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SaltyNZ:
Bee: I saw a hole in the system/law and I'm thinking about taking it - I was wanting someone to confirm or deny that this hole exists... I don't have a definitive answer but 90% sure this hole does exist...

KiwiNZ, I don't think I'm a bad person - If I had $5M I would gladly be generous and give you some if you asked but as I don't always have enough money to put food on the table for my family at the moment, I'm not going to pay for something unless I HAVE to... I think that's pretty reasonable???







There is no hole in the system. You (or rather, your wife) is liable.

See here, and here, for example. I have also personally taken two people to the disputes tribunal (well, me once, my wife the other time as that car was registered in her name) for reversing into our vehicles and denying liability. They also were found liable and had to pay full damages.

If the other driver presses it, you will lose.


And why did you need to take it to court?  why did the insurance company not sort it out??

Also how hard is the courts process or is it real easy?

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  # 813154 7-May-2013 19:16
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Bee: I came here thinking someone here would know a thing or two and give me good legal advice [...]

Here it is: It will cost you a whole lot more time and money if you do not file a claim.

How much is the no claims bonus you will lose if you do file a claim?

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  # 813167 7-May-2013 19:19
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Bee: 

And why did you need to take it to court?  why did the insurance company not sort it out??

Also how hard is the courts process or is it real easy?


Because the other drivers did what you are suggesting you will be doing - refusing liability - and so it needed a court decision to formally assign them the liability. But once it got to court, there was never any question they were going to win. All they were doing was delaying the inevitable, and getting their own time wasted having to appear in court to do it.

The insurance companies don't want to pay either. If their client refuses liability then they don't have to pay until the court forces them to. Worst case they hang onto their cash a bit longer; it costs them nothing to allow their clients to refuse.

We were covered by our own insurance of course, but they don't want to pay either. So the rules are, either you pin it on someone else, or they make you pay the excess. I don't want to pay the excess, so I take the other driver to court.

And win.

Because that's the law.

EDIT: How hard was the process? It takes 5 minutes to fill out a form you can download online, and you post it in with your credit card details for the filing fees. You get back a letter about a fortnight later with the court date, and so does the defendant. Don't think it won't happen because it's hard and expensive to kick off the process: it isn't hard at all. And there are no lawyers in the Disputes Tribunal, so it doesn't cost a year's salary to do it, either.

EDIT 2: And the other reason to take it to court is because people who pull that kind of stunt **** me off. So even though paying the excess isn't a bank breaker for me, I would haul your butt to court just so you knew you'd been beaten.




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  # 813177 7-May-2013 19:32
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Bees insurance company wont get involved until bee is found liable, which is why it has to go to court if bee will not start the ball rolling by discussing it with their insurance company who will normally accept liability to avoid the hassle of court.

IMO if you cant afford the excess, even spread over a few weeks then you have no business driving. Insurance companies are usually very accommodating towards paying things like that off over time. Its when you are taking your car in for repairs you have to front up the excess straight away.

Every step taken to delay admission of liability is just going to add more justified costs onto the bill, most of which the insurance company wont want to know about since you have delayed handing off responsibility of it to them due to you + your wifes arrogance and responsibility dodging.

Read your contract with insurance, it will say that you must promptly and reasonably notify them about things which may reasonably result in a claim. Careless reversing and hitting someone is one of those things for sure.




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Bee



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  # 813181 7-May-2013 19:37
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SaltyNZ: so don't you think the insurance companies or the law should change something so you don't have to go thru the courts to get things settled?

At this stage I'm taking the court option because its easiest for me and I don't believe the other party will take that route...

Two Reasons:  If it were me I would not be worried about a little scratch on the bumper and also they cant prove it was  caused by my wife...

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  # 813190 7-May-2013 19:42
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Bee: SaltyNZ: so don't you think the insurance companies or the law should change something so you don't have to go thru the courts to get things settled?

At this stage I'm taking the court option because its easiest for me and I don't believe the other party will take that route...

Two Reasons:  If it were me I would not be worried about a little scratch on the bumper and also they cant prove it was  caused by my wife...


Just because you dont care if your cars value is reduced and have no pride in it doesn't mean that other people should have to put up with that.

And "you cant prove it" is a bit of a dick attitude IMO. Grow a pair and accept responsibility for your familys actions.




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  # 813192 7-May-2013 19:43
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Bee: SaltyNZ: so don't you think the insurance companies or the law should change something so you don't have to go thru the courts to get things settled?

At this stage I'm taking the court option because its easiest for me and I don't believe the other party will take that route...

Two Reasons:  If it were me I would not be worried about a little scratch on the bumper and also they cant prove it was  caused by my wife...


Nothing needs to change except you. If you accept the liability now, you will be charged excess and perhaps no claims bonus by your insurance, and nobody has to go to court.

It doesn't really matter whether or not you would worry about the damage. It only matters whether the other person does.




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  # 813200 7-May-2013 19:50
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Here's another thing... the other driver can report it to the police and then your Mrs can be charged with careless driving.
I was charged because I refused paying for damage after a restricted driver with 5 passengers in an un-registered car that drove into the back of my already reversing truck (with yellow lights flashing and hazards on etc)

I lost, even though they weren't even meant to be on the road.



Wait until you see what it costs when you go to court...


Don't be an ar$eh0le




edit: BTW, a chip on a headlight is a WoF issue and even 20 year old car headlights can be $300+

And panelbeaters quote at about $400 - $450 a panel no mater the damage (i'm a spray painter)

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  # 813243 7-May-2013 20:34
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Bee: s no LEGAL obligation here for me at all... I understand the morals but really why would I volunteer to pay money that I just don't have???


There is no obligation for you/ your wife to claim on your insurance policy. There is however a legal obligation to pay for the repairs to the other car, that was caused by your wife. You can chose whether to pay for this under your insurance or not, but you do have to pay.

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  # 813299 7-May-2013 21:38
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ethannz:
Bee: s no LEGAL obligation here for me at all... I understand the morals but really why would I volunteer to pay money that I just don't have???


There is no obligation for you/ your wife to claim on your insurance policy. There is however a legal obligation to pay for the repairs to the other car, that was caused by your wife. You can chose whether to pay for this under your insurance or not, but you do have to pay.


Note that some on here have mentioned a moral obligation. Many, if not all of us responders feel that way, although you do not. But you do have a legal, as in the Statute law, to be held responsible if held liable.

We rest our case, no further witnesses, your honour.

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  # 813341 7-May-2013 22:35
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Bee: SaltyNZ: so don't you think the insurance companies or the law should change something so you don't have to go thru the courts to get things settled?

At this stage I'm taking the court option because its easiest for me and I don't believe the other party will take that route...

Two Reasons:  If it were me I would not be worried about a little scratch on the bumper and also they cant prove it was  caused by my wife...


how's this for proof ie. your first post:

"My wife backed into another car today...  No damage to our car but put a scratch on the bumper and a chip in a headlight of the other car... "


you are being unreasonable, unethical and a bit of a douche to be honest :(

man up - accept responsibility and sort it out


ps: can someone please file his first post away and somehow get it to the poor person who has done no wrong - yet has the misfortune to have to deal with this guy :/

noc

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# 813501 8-May-2013 09:19
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This whole thread has reminded me why I have Full Insurance on my car. You pay more, but in return, you don't have to deal with people like the OP...... tisk tisk

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