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  # 1342522 13-Jul-2015 19:54
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Presso:

I don't really have a problem with them except when they start getting pushy.


They press the 'cross' button to slow traffic flows? Even if they are not pushy, they are a problem and should be shut down. 



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  # 1342526 13-Jul-2015 19:56
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freitasm: A fine that not one of those people can pay, so they don't feel bad at all. Fine then $500 and see things change.



These are not the kind of people who pay fines :)


 
 
 
 


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  # 1342528 13-Jul-2015 20:01
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Is it not already a criminal offence to dart in and out of traffic around intersections? If so then why aren't the police doing something about it?

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  # 1342529 13-Jul-2015 20:03
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Oblivian: Theres a guy who hangs on the QE2/Marshland intersection. He appears to spend more time wearing a fluro vest, clown wig and twirling the brush than approaching people :) And rightfully so he is a lot more popular.


Is that where the big roundabout is? You would think that a roundabout would be even more dangerous than traffic lights because the traffic would be constantly creeping forward.

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  # 1342531 13-Jul-2015 20:07
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alasta:
Oblivian: Theres a guy who hangs on the QE2/Marshland intersection. He appears to spend more time wearing a fluro vest, clown wig and twirling the brush than approaching people :) And rightfully so he is a lot more popular.


Is that where the big roundabout is? You would think that a roundabout would be even more dangerous than traffic lights because the traffic would be constantly creeping forward.


Once upon a time. Now its light controlled on a large scale

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  # 1342539 13-Jul-2015 20:35
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lxsw20: I see they are popping up in Dunedin now on a fairly regular basis. I don't mind as long as they accept I don't need a clean when I wave them off. 


Yeah on one of the main intersections on Andy Bay road.... they are a pain in the ass. 

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  # 1342596 13-Jul-2015 21:25
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I couldn't possible object to young people getting off their bums to earn a crust. I don't like them having to do dangerous and dirty work to earn money but I too have never been harassed in 30 years in both London and Auckland. I admire the enterprise and actually like the vibe of having guys on the street. In other words I'd rather the police went and spent my taxes catching some real criminals. 





My EPL football websites: Get the results but hide the score of your team at HidetheScore.net. Compare league positions with wage bills at RealPremierLeague.net.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1342600 13-Jul-2015 21:37
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Oblivian:
JimmyH: There were a bunch around Wellington Hospital last time I was down there. They ran out when the lights stopped traffic and started furiously squirting stuff on windscreens without asking.

Normally I'm in favour of free enterprise, and oppose busybodys and baning things - but this lot were pushy, obnoxious and a safety hazard - plus they didn't want to take no for an answer, and shouted abuse when I waved them off. If I was (say) a fairly frail pensioner I would have felt quite intimidated, and worried they would either trash my car or hit me. It's close to demanding money with menaces.

In this case I would like to see a strong bylaw banning the way they behave, banning performing their activity in the middle of the road when traffic stops, with hefty fines and real enforcement. And getting even tougher on repeat offenders. Something like:

First instance - warning, fined $100
Second Instance - stiffer warning, fined $500
Third instance - a night in the cells.


The article that has raised this, has a bylaw. With a $20,000 fine :)
http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/70128949/police-to-enforce-bylaw-to-stop-window-washing-at-christchurch-intersections


This is something I actually know about.  No Council has the power to create a fine for breaching that sort of a bylaw.  The fine referred to in the article is a maximum of $20,000, and applies to every bylaw made under the Local Government Act 2002 (other than those where a different fine is specified in another piece of legislation - e.g. dog control, parking fines, etc).  It's also not an instant fine.  The Police or Council have to first prosecute the individual in question.  If they are convicted through the courts, then the judge determines the fine, up to the stated maximum of $20k.  In situations like this, the fine is more likely to be between $50 and $100.  However, the Council and Police have no influence over this, and it only happens after they go through what is likely to be a disproportionately expensive prosecution.

So despite the media story about a "crackdown" on window washers, it is more likely to be a case of publicity to back up impending uses of the Bluff Act, if it even goes that far.  It will depend on the seriousness of offending, and the scale of resource that Council and  Police are prepared to commit.  Maybe an extreme case will be taken through the courts to remind people to cooperate, but it won't result in $20k fines being handed out willy-nilly.

Sadly, Councils actually have very few powers to directly enforce their bylaws, aside from ones like Dog Control and parking fines (which are supported by specific pieces of legislation).  Most people don't realise this, and get very annoyed when told that the thing that want "banned" is unlikely to be effective with the powers currently given to local government.

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  # 1342771 14-Jul-2015 09:33
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semigeek:
lxsw20: I see they are popping up in Dunedin now on a fairly regular basis. I don't mind as long as they accept I don't need a clean when I wave them off. 


Yeah on one of the main intersections on Andy Bay road.... they are a pain in the ass. 


Saw them when I was buying my car at Dunedin City Ford.
Thankfully I managed to avoid them. And now have another reason not to go out on the weekend.

Banana?
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  # 1342777 14-Jul-2015 09:48
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There is a crew of them at the intersection of Great South Road and Cavendish Drive in Manukau pretty much every time I go through there.
I have always just waved them off and they have moved on - lots of cars there and the lights seem to cycle quite quickly, so there is always new customers for them. I guess if you make $5 per light change, it adds up pretty quickly.

I have seen the Police move them on a couple of times.

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  # 1342811 14-Jul-2015 10:28
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My real issue with many of them is the fact that it's my property they want to squirt their filthy water on and I know nothing about their scratchy implements or their intentions if I don't pay. 

I have a nice car, that I keep clean. I like it to be the way I like it. I don't want them squirting their sh*te all over my clean car and I don't want to feel like I should run a red light simply to avoid them. 

The vast majority of these people look like they're on prison release and frankly are not people i want touching my car. 

It may sound classist and pompous, but if I wanted my car windscreen washed, I'd ask the nice people at the gas station to do it.




Handsome Dan Has Spoken.

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  # 1342815 14-Jul-2015 10:31
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freitasm: A fine that not one of those people can pay, so they don't feel bad at all. Fine then $500 and see things change.



Then you have a different problem. The problem changes from can't pay to won't pay.


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  # 1342868 14-Jul-2015 10:54
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JimmyH: There were a bunch around Wellington Hospital last time I was down there. They ran out when the lights stopped traffic and started furiously squirting stuff on windscreens without asking.

Normally I'm in favour of free enterprise, and oppose busybodys and baning things - but this lot were pushy, obnoxious and a safety hazard - plus they didn't want to take no for an answer, and shouted abuse when I waved them off. If I was (say) a fairly frail pensioner I would have felt quite intimidated, and worried they would either trash my car or hit me. It's close to demanding money with menaces.

In this case I would like to see a strong bylaw banning the way they behave, banning performing their activity in the middle of the road when traffic stops, with hefty fines and real enforcement. And getting even tougher on repeat offenders. Something like:

First instance - warning, fined $100
Second Instance - stiffer warning, fined $500
Third instance - a night in the cells.


alasta: Is it not already a criminal offence to dart in and out of traffic around intersections? If so then why aren't the police doing something about it?


I'm not sure why, but a huge amount of people seem to suffer from the perception there is a glut of police available to do every little menial requirement every minute of the day. Police will do something about window washers at intersections whenever they can, but the reality is this stuff is not a high priority when contrasted against things like the burgeoning family violence rates. Maybe some of you should request to go on ride-alongs with your local police so you can see how something like even a single family violence call can easily tie up a two-person unit for 2-4 hours.

surfisup1000:
freitasm: A fine that not one of those people can pay, so they don't feel bad at all. Fine then $500 and see things change. 


These are not the kind of people who pay fines :) 


Egzackery!

Hmm, what to write...
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  # 1342944 14-Jul-2015 12:02
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If I can be fined for texting on my phone at traffic lights (because its so dangerous I might kill a small child) then....




Matthew


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  # 1345010 15-Jul-2015 20:58
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freitasm: A fine that not one of those people can pay, so they don't feel bad at all. Fine then $500 and see things change.



And if they don't pay then they can be rewarded with a nice relaxing week-long holiday staying at Her Majesty's Bed and Breakfast.

I also get the point about police time. However, if they have time to pot people for inadvertently and perfectly safely drifting up to 55 km/h in a 50 zone on a holiday weekend, then surely they have time to pot people causing a public nuisance, playing a hazardous game of russian roulette in the traffic at intersections, potentially damaging property, and (in come cases) coming close to essentially demanding money with menaces.

I accept it's not exactly up there with the Crippen murder on the crime scale, but it's not nothing either. And I feel sorry for the driver who will eventually be put through the wringer for running one of these clowns down, as they dart in and out of the traffic stream at light changes.

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