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freitasm
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  #2223050 24-Apr-2019 09:15
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A bit related in the topic (but unrelated in the outcome as this is a US story): Court Says Using Chalk On Tires For Parking Enforcement Violates Constitution.

 

 

"Trespassing upon a privately-owned vehicle parked on a public street to place a chalk mark to begin gathering information to ultimately impose a government sanction is unconstitutional under the Fourth Amendment," Taylor's lawyer, Philip Ellison, wrote in a court filing.

 

A three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit unanimously agreed. Chalking tires is a kind of trespass, Judge Bernice Donald wrote for the panel, and it requires a warrant. The decision affects the 6th Circuit, which includes Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee.

 

The Fourth Amendment protects people from "unreasonable searches and seizures." To determine whether a violation has occurred, the court first asks whether the government's conduct counts as a search; if so, it asks whether the search was reasonable.

 

The court found that chalking is indeed a "search" for purposes of the Fourth Amendment, because government officials physically trespass upon a constitutionally protected area to obtain information. Just as the Supreme Court ruled in 2012 that sticking a GPS tracker to a car counted as a "search," so is marking a tire with chalk to figure out how long it has been parked, the court wrote.

 

And that search wasn't reasonable, the court said. The city searches vehicles "that are parked legally, without probable cause, or even so much as 'individualized suspicion of wrongdoing' — the touchstone of the reasonableness standard," the court wrote.

 

 

 





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floydbloke
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  #2223115 24-Apr-2019 10:51
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This whole “ you’re interfering with my property” attitude smells a lot of lefty, liberal entitlement to me.

 

I’m not in any way condoning some of the zealous bully-boy tactics from towers and clampers who prey to find victims, and I despise getting a parking tickets as much as the next guy.

 

I do feel though that carpark owners who provide spaces for their customers have a right to exert some control over time limits and checking ‘overstayers’ by applying some chalk on the tread of a car’s tyres seems to me quite a reasonable way to try and do that.

 

Assuming that the carpark has some form of notice that time limits will be controlled (enforced?), and most do, if you don’t want your tyres chalked, don’t park there!





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freitasm
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  #2223123 24-Apr-2019 11:06
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floydbloke:

 

This whole “ you’re interfering with my property” attitude smells a lot of lefty, liberal entitlement to me.

 

 

I agree with the rest of your comment but this line is... weird. You say this as anyone of the right leaning wouldn't use this argument at all to get out of a fine... I am sure quite the opposite would happen - so why single out "lefty, liberal"?

 

What about you try not to politicise the discussion?





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Rickles
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  #2223129 24-Apr-2019 11:20
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Does anyone remember when Bob Jones went to Court and claimed that his dog owned the car? ๐Ÿ˜‹


k1w1k1d
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  #2223130 24-Apr-2019 11:21
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Parking enforcement officer Tabitha Hoskins should get a pat on the back for doing her job and Alison Taylor should have been warned for wasting the court's time!

 

Surely there must be a clause written somewhere in the local bylaws allowing the council to do this as part of their parking enforcement operation?

 

 

 

 


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  #2223133 24-Apr-2019 11:33
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k1w1k1d:

 

Surely there must be a clause written somewhere in the local bylaws allowing the council to do this as part of their parking enforcement operation?

 

 

There may well be a local bylaw, but if it is found unconstitutional its over,

 

Things get really tricky real fast in the US with respect to the constitutionality of laws,

 

Agencies that continue to enforce law that is ruled unconstitutional are open to civil action under federal law for breaching the constitutional rights of a citizen...

 

 


freitasm
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  #2223136 24-Apr-2019 12:02
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k1w1k1d:

 

Parking enforcement officer Tabitha Hoskins should get a pat on the back for doing her job and Alison Taylor should have been warned for wasting the court's time!

 

Surely there must be a clause written somewhere in the local bylaws allowing the council to do this as part of their parking enforcement operation?

 

 

Yes, but the bylaws stop where their Constitution says it's illegal. So be it.





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decibel
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  #2223137 24-Apr-2019 12:03
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Rickles:

 

Does anyone remember when Bob Jones went to Court and claimed that his dog owned the car? ๐Ÿ˜‹

 

 

 

 

The police were slow there, they should have demanded that the dog come and collect the car and drive it away.


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  #2223156 24-Apr-2019 12:58
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I guess if this is standard practice for enforcing parking laws, then by using the public roads and parking, then you are agreeing to this practice. As for using private parking, then as long as they don't do damage, then they can enforce this any reasonable way they like.




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  #2223172 24-Apr-2019 13:18
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I think somebody who is parked on private property, and not paying for it is interfering with the private property that he is parked on.

 

People who own car parks should have full right to mark car tyres with chalk to make sure that they dont park longer than what they have paid for.


freitasm
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  #2223174 24-Apr-2019 13:29
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BoerieGalore:

 

I think somebody who is parked on private property, and not paying for it is interfering with the private property that he is parked on.

 

People who own car parks should have full right to mark car tyres with chalk to make sure that they dont park longer than what they have paid for.

 

 

I think the OP make it clear in the topic title "parking wardens" and mentioning city councils in the mesasage - the topic is about public space parking.





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BoerieGalore
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  #2223177 24-Apr-2019 13:37
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freitasm:

 

I think the OP make it clear in the topic title "parking wardens" and mentioning city councils in the mesasage - the topic is about public space parking.

 

 

Actually I thought we were talking about both?

 

frednz:

 

I know this is rather trivial, but I'm interested to know whether city councils and private car park owners have the legal right to put large chalk marks on the tyres of parked cars?

 

I realise they do this so that they can later check up on which cars are "overstayers", but these marks sometimes take a while to disappear and I don't see why (in this case Countdown) has the right to deface my nicely recently blacked tyres!

 

Also, do I have the right to remove the chalk mark and leave my car in the car park on the grounds that I did not authorise anyone to play around with my car and put marks on it?

 

Why can't wardens just take photographs of the parked cars or write down the registration numbers on a piece of paper along with the current time?

 

Thanks

 

Fred

 


freitasm
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  #2223180 24-Apr-2019 13:45
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Sure, go for it then.





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traderstu
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  #2223186 24-Apr-2019 14:04
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Would it be legal to get the kids to follow the parking warden and put chalk marks on the tyres that he/she misses?


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  #2223192 24-Apr-2019 14:37
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floydbloke:

 

This whole “ you’re interfering with my property” attitude smells a lot of lefty, liberal entitlement to me.

 

 

Sounds more like libertarian than liberal to me.


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