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  Reply # 1605074 5-Aug-2016 15:48
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jonathan18:

 

Lizard1977:

 

I've been using the Frogparking app in PN for over a year, and it's pretty good.  I'm one of those people that normally avoids paying for parking wherever possible, but the convenience of paying per minute and not having to wait at the machine to make payment mean I know use paid parking more often.  Top up via the app is easy, and for a $20 (minimum) top up the fee is just 60c.

 

Sensors are pretty robust and to my knowledge there's been very little vandalism in Palmerston North.  Can't speak for the Wellington set up though.

 

There have been plenty of grumbles about the Frogparking system since it was introduced several years ago, but I get the feeling that it's more to do with people's aversion to paid parking full stop.  Theoretically, it does mean that a parking warden can be dispatched if a sensor detects a vehicle but no payment, but my experience is that the area to be covered is large and the number of wardens means this happens rarely.  Last week I forgot to activate the app for my bay and came back 3 hours later expecting a ticket, but there was none.  It's hardly efficient to have a warden chasing alerts all over the area handing out tickets.

 

Some people grumble about the change of the system being more complicated (having to type in a unique bay number rather than pay for a piece of paper), but I think we should give people more credit.  I think people adjust reasonably quickly, but there will always be those who hate having to change their ways, and nothing will change that.

 

 

Thanks for the heads-up on the wider usage of the Frogparking app - I had no idea until I read this that it was usable across the city now. I ALWAYS struggle to have change to pay for parking (this is one of the few uses I have for cash), so this provides an ideal solution. Will download the app now...

 

 

It's not perfect by any means.  I've found that if you wander too far away from the original park it can sometimes have difficulty validating which park you are in.  But this is down to the fact that the two-character bay codes aren't completely unique (and are repeated in different sectors of the city).  When they eventually move to a three-character system then the bay codes should be completely unique across the City, and this will make paying by app less dependent on validating based on cross-referencing the GPS coordinates.


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  Reply # 1605264 6-Aug-2016 07:14
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davidcole:

So what they should do, because situations change...is postpay parking rather than prepay, or refund you if you leave before your allotted time, or you may for x time and can use any park for that amount of time.


That would negate the lack of giving the ticket to someone else, or those that figure I've paid for 2 hours and for one reason or another had to move location and so I should be able to reuse my ticket.



That's what the app does, you for the period of the park and when you get back to the car, stop it and it refunds the remaining time.

The same app is also available for use in New Plymouth
and Tauranga

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  Reply # 1605322 6-Aug-2016 10:21
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davidcole:

 

 

 

So what they should do, because situations change...is postpay parking rather than prepay, or refund you if you leave before your allotted time, or you may for x time and can use any park for that amount of time.

 

That would negate the lack of giving the ticket to someone else, or those that figure I've paid for 2 hours and for one reason or another had to move location and so I should be able to reuse my ticket.

 

 

Phone2park has offered this in Wellington for the past couple of years. I wonder if it's still going to co-exist with the new service?

 

 


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  Reply # 1605376 6-Aug-2016 12:03
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 A quick scan of this topic, and it seems that no-one has (yet) picked up on or commented about the huge potential security issue with account topups on the paymyparking system.

 

Basically, they use the "account2account" system (which is more or less the same as "poli"), which means that you need to enter your (highly secret!) internet banking username AND PASSWORD onto their website, and their system then logs into your internet banking facility and *pretends to be you*!!!

 

I'm gobsmacked that anyone thought that was a good idea; I'm equally gobsmacked that the Banks haven't blacklisted the IP address(es) of the account2account systems.  (And I should probably ask them "why not?")

 

Needless to say, doing this is violating the T&Cs for most people's Internet Banking, and means that consumers would potentially be left "high and dry" should there be ANY problems in the future with money missing from their accounts should they have used this system only once.

 

I've pointed this out to a few members of the City Council, and await their feedback with interest.  Trying to decide if it's worth telling the Stuff "news" (for lack of a better word) people, too.  Sometimes the pressure of public opinion is the only way things improve.


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  Reply # 1605558 6-Aug-2016 17:28
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I had no idea.

From ASB

"If you are an ASB or BankDirect customer, we recommend that you do not use the POLi or Account2Account payment services due to the security risks involved.

We are not associated with, and have never endorsed, POLi or Account2Account."

Also this link

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11596037

"Payments. Everyone wants them to be quick and easy, but secure at the same time, especially for online transactions.

The last thing however is tricky to get right, because being secure on the Internet usually means things won't be quick and easy. Plus, there could be fees for customers and merchants as well, which never fails to annoy people.

Nevertheless, the Internet is hostile territory and payments conducted over it must be secure - there really isn't any other option.

Therefore, I was surprised to get an email from Tim, who tried to pay a parking fee to Auckland Transport, describing what appears to be a rather insecure way of paying it."


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  Reply # 1605566 6-Aug-2016 17:49
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jamesrt:

 

 A quick scan of this topic, and it seems that no-one has (yet) picked up on or commented about the huge potential security issue with account topups on the paymyparking system.

 

Basically, they use the "account2account" system (which is more or less the same as "poli"), which means that you need to enter your (highly secret!) internet banking username AND PASSWORD onto their website, and their system then logs into your internet banking facility and *pretends to be you*!!!

 

I'm gobsmacked that anyone thought that was a good idea; I'm equally gobsmacked that the Banks haven't blacklisted the IP address(es) of the account2account systems.  (And I should probably ask them "why not?")

 

Needless to say, doing this is violating the T&Cs for most people's Internet Banking, and means that consumers would potentially be left "high and dry" should there be ANY problems in the future with money missing from their accounts should they have used this system only once.

 

I've pointed this out to a few members of the City Council, and await their feedback with interest.  Trying to decide if it's worth telling the Stuff "news" (for lack of a better word) people, too.  Sometimes the pressure of public opinion is the only way things improve.

 

 

 

 

Yes this has been brought up several times over the last few years. It doesn't seem that the media has picked up on this too much in the past. I beleive there has been the odd story about it,. I mean what happens if we use one of these systems and log in with our online banking details, are we breaching the banks terms and if our account gets hacked, do we then have no rights to compensation. Has this ever happened to anyone? I can see why many people totally avoid online banking, and still prefer to go into a branch. Really the NZ media should be picking up on this, but it is now so limited and seems to concentrate on clickbait stories. eg Just look at all the stories they do on Apple products. RNZ who now provide a lot of stories to stuff, seem to be the only real news agency in town, and RNZ is tax payer funded.

 

I have never used such a system myself, but I believe my parents have used it to pay for something, as if they paid by credit card, they would have been charged a transaction fee.


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  Reply # 1605614 6-Aug-2016 19:04
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mattwnz: ...if we use one of these systems and log in with our online banking details, are we breaching the banks terms...

 

Pretty much.  A note about ASB T&C's is earlier in the thread, and ANZ's T&Cs have things like this:

 

Don’t let unauthorised people or systems access your information

 

* Don’t let anyone else access your accounts through our electronic banking services.

 

and

 

Make sure you can trust the computer you use and the links you follow

 

* Don’t enter your login details onto a third party website.

 

Seems pretty straight-forward to me that using POLI or account2account would be violating those terms.

 

mattwnz: and if our account gets hacked, do we then have no rights to compensation

 

Probably; again ANZ's T&Cs includes statements like "[If] You’ve acted fraudulently or negligently[,] You’re responsible for all losses,
regardless of the balance available in your account."


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  Reply # 1605739 7-Aug-2016 09:36
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As an aside from my previous comment, I have taken the opportunity of the current local body electioneering to pass my concern around security to a couple of the more prominent Mayoral candidates.  In both cases I've had fairly quick responses back saying "thanks for raising the concern", and both have said they need to get the council management staff to report and comment on the issue (not unreasonable!).

 

If anything comes of this, I'll post an update.


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  Reply # 1605754 7-Aug-2016 10:19
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Juha Saarinen had an article on this in the Herald.
http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11596037

Maybe the Banks ignore geeks.

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  Reply # 1606349 8-Aug-2016 14:29
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If you are a Westpac customer, then you shouldn't have an issue as they have launched an API which works with A2A

 

https://www.bankingday.com/nl06_news_selected.php?act=2&stream=1&selkey=19070&hlc=2&hlw=

 

 

 

I suspect some of  the reluctance of other banks to provide smart services like this (save technological hurdles with legacy kit) may be their desire to maintain merchant fees coming through the credit / debit chain. (although, they also don't want customers complaining about stolen funds etc)

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1608570 10-Aug-2016 13:31
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I have now received a response from WCC.  In part, it says:

Whilst we understand the concerns that have been raised regarding the account2account payments, we have explored this thoroughly and are satisfied that it meets the required level of security.

We are advised by Payment Express that this product is  built on the Payment Express PxPay2.0 API which is securely hosted by Payment Express and supported by millions of dollars of infrastructure in order to maintain its integrity and compliance of being a PCI DSS Level 1 Payments Provider. Account2Account is supported by all major banks in New Zealand and Australia.

 

I'm now asking my bank if indeed they do "suppport" the use of Account2Account.  I doubt they'll say "yes".

 

Just to also note that WCC supports @JonnyCam's statement, as they went on to say "it [Account2Account] is also white-labelled and resold by Westpac as Direct From Account - http://www.westpac.co.nz/business/payment-solutions/direct-from-account/".  Therefore, one can only assume Westpac will give you your money back if hackers break into your account that way...  :-)


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